HELP - Need insurance claim advice following scuba incident

[tursiops]

Are you playing some sort of rhetorical game?

Or can you really not tell the difference between a non-lawyers's shorthand summary of a contract provision and a fully informed legal opinion?

@MountainGirl1980 , as a scubaboard contributors, I'd like to apologize on behalf of many of my fellows for tursiops' responses on this thread. He delights on pointing out the errors of others. In his defense, he's mostly correct and there's often value in the points he highlights. However, I do not believe that is the case here.

LOL. I choose to believe what she says. You clearly don't.
You can, by the way, stuff your "fully informed legal opinion" for this case of a dive operator in Spain defrauding an uncertified diver in the UK.

 

[lowwall]

LOL. I choose to believe what she says. You clearly don't.
You can, by the way, stuff your "fully informed legal opinion" for this case of a die operator in Spain defrauding an uncertified diver in the UK.

Let me clarify. I'm not giving a fully informed legal opinion, I was explaining what was required to be able to give one.

But determining this would require knowledge of the exact wording of the contract and a deep understanding of applicable common law, statutory law and relevant regulations.

FWIW, I'm not a lawyer, but I do research for a law firm every day and occasionally draft sections of briefs and contracts for them. I've long gotten over my surprise that what you would think is clear meaning of a phrase is anything but.

 

[runsongas]

@MountainGirl1980 there pretty much is nothing we can do for you if the issue is that your insurance wants confirmation it was a supervised dive within the 15m limit and you can't get the dive shop/instructor to assert that was the case. at that point, you are pretty much at the mercy of the insurance co.

 

[tursiops]

@MountainGirl1980 there pretty much is nothing we can do for you if the issue is that your insurance wants confirmation it was a supervised dive within the 15m limit and you can't get the dive shop/instructor to assert that was the case. at that point, you are pretty much at the mercy of the insurance co.

Based on the dive operator's website, it looks like pure fraud on his part. That brings in a very different dimension, but the insurance company probably doesn't care.

 

[Edward3c]

Unfortunately I won't ever dive again, by the time I surfaced I couldn't breathe and that sensation is not one I want to experience again. I've been checked over and told there is no reason why I couldn't dive again but I'm too traumatised.

If you ever change you mind consider visiting a BSAC club in your area where you’ll get advice on training and dive insurance, which is additional to travel insurance.

 

[Edward3c]

Based on the dive operator's website, it looks like pure fraud on his part. That brings in a very different dimension, but the insurance company probably doesn't care.

Spot on. The same company, from what I remember, wouldn’t pay out for chamber treatments in Egypt because the client went deeper than their qualification. They had to sell their house to get home.

 

[IslandDiversHI]

You might try providing the standards to the insurance company for the program you were likely participating in, called "Basic Diver". Since the standard is a depth limit of 40ft (less than 15m) this may help your case with the insurance company. Here are those standards for your reference:

Basic Diver (ISO 11121)​

Intent​

The SSI Basic Diver program provides students with the necessary skills and knowledge to complete introductory scuba dives with an SSI Open Water Instructor in an open water environment.
Note | This program does not result in an entry-level certification. The instructor should only teach the skills outlined in the Basic Diver Instructor Manual and focus on the students’ safety and enjoyment.

Minimum Instructor Rating​

An active status Open Water Instructor may conduct the Basic Diver program.

Student Prerequisites​

• Minimum age | 10 years old.

Duration​

• There is no recommended duration for the Basic Diver program.

Depth Limitations​

• Maximum pool/confined water depth limit | 5 meters.

• Maximum open water depth limit | 40 feet.

In-Water Ratios​

Pool​

• The student-to-instructor ratio is 8:1.

• Certified assistants cannot be used to increase ratios.

Confined Water and Open Water​

• The student-to-instructor ratio is 4:1.

• The ratio may increase to 6:2 with one (1) certified assistant.

• No more than two (2) participants per instructor or certified assistant may be under the age of 12, and none of the remaining participants may be under the age of 15.

Minimum Supervision​

• An active status Assistant Instructor or higher must directly supervise all academic and pool/confined water activities.

• An active status Open Water Instructor must evaluate all required skills in the pool/confined water prior to any open water activities, and must directly supervise all open water activities.

Note | Any Open Water Instructor may verify completion of the required pool/confined water skills prior to the open water training dive.

Proximity​

• During in-water skill evaluations, the students must remain under direct supervision of the SSI Professional so that physical contact can be made at any time.

Requirements For Completion​

• Complete all academic and pool/confined water sessions and assessments as outlined in the instructor manual for Basic Diver.

• Complete at least one (1) open water training dive as outlined in the instructor manual for Basic Diver.

Issuing a Recognition Card​

• Upon completion, process all students in MySSI so they may receive their digital recognition card.

• Basic Divers may dive under the direct supervision of an SSI Open Water Instructor in environments equivalent to their training, and within the recommended depth limits, for six (6) months after completion of the Basic Diver program.

• After six (6) months, the student must retake the Basic Diver program, or register for a Scuba Diver/Open Water Diver program to continue diving.

Credit​

• SSI Professionals can count one (1) open water training dive from in the Basic Diver program towards the Scuba Diver or Open Water Diver certification.

• Credit only applies if done within six (6) months of completing the Basic Diver program.

• An open water training dive may only be credited towards the Open Water Diver program if the dive is conducted to a minimum depth of 15 feet for at least 15 minutes.

 

[Edward3c]

You might try providing the standards to the insurance company for the program you were likely participating in, called "Basic Diver". Since the standard is a depth limit of 40ft (less than 15m) this may help your case with the insurance company. Here are those standards for your reference:

Basic Diver (ISO 11121)​

Intent​

The SSI Basic Diver program provides students with the necessary skills and knowledge to complete introductory scuba dives with an SSI Open Water Instructor in an open water environment.
Note | This program does not result in an entry-level certification. The instructor should only teach the skills outlined in the Basic Diver Instructor Manual and focus on the students’ safety and enjoyment.

Minimum Instructor Rating​

An active status Open Water Instructor may conduct the Basic Diver program.

Student Prerequisites​

• Minimum age | 10 years old.

Duration​

• There is no recommended duration for the Basic Diver program.

Depth Limitations​

• Maximum pool/confined water depth limit | 5 meters.

• Maximum open water depth limit | 40 feet.

In-Water Ratios​

Pool​

• The student-to-instructor ratio is 8:1.

• Certified assistants cannot be used to increase ratios.

Confined Water and Open Water​

• The student-to-instructor ratio is 4:1.

• The ratio may increase to 6:2 with one (1) certified assistant.

• No more than two (2) participants per instructor or certified assistant may be under the age of 12, and none of the remaining participants may be under the age of 15.

Minimum Supervision​

• An active status Assistant Instructor or higher must directly supervise all academic and pool/confined water activities.

• An active status Open Water Instructor must evaluate all required skills in the pool/confined water prior to any open water activities, and must directly supervise all open water activities.

Note | Any Open Water Instructor may verify completion of the required pool/confined water skills prior to the open water training dive.

Proximity​

• During in-water skill evaluations, the students must remain under direct supervision of the SSI Professional so that physical contact can be made at any time.

Requirements For Completion​

• Complete all academic and pool/confined water sessions and assessments as outlined in the instructor manual for Basic Diver.

• Complete at least one (1) open water training dive as outlined in the instructor manual for Basic Diver.

Issuing a Recognition Card​

• Upon completion, process all students in MySSI so they may receive their digital recognition card.

• Basic Divers may dive under the direct supervision of an SSI Open Water Instructor in environments equivalent to their training, and within the recommended depth limits, for six (6) months after completion of the Basic Diver program.

• After six (6) months, the student must retake the Basic Diver program, or register for a Scuba Diver/Open Water Diver program to continue diving.

Credit​

• SSI Professionals can count one (1) open water training dive from in the Basic Diver program towards the Scuba Diver or Open Water Diver certification.

• Credit only applies if done within six (6) months of completing the Basic Diver program.

• An open water training dive may only be credited towards the Open Water Diver program if the dive is conducted to a minimum depth of 15 feet for at least 15 minutes.

Unfortunately, the OP says the instructor was not registered with SSI at the time. That’s their get out of paying clause.

 

[nuage]

Hi,

What hospital bill are you expecting? Did you go to a public hospital in Spain?

If you’re a citizen of an EU or EEA country, your European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) or Global Health Insurance Card (GHIC) will give you access to free public healthcare for the first three months of your stay. If you’ll be staying in Spain for longer, you’ll need to register for Spain’s public health insurance or take out a private policy to ensure you’re covered after the first three months.