Heart Rate monitor for Precise Decompression

[PhilEllis]

Interesting reading...........

However, what does any of this have to do with the "new" feature found on these new computers? I view it as nothing more than putting some abritrary "factors" in place based on heart rate. Just like the "personal" fitness settings on almost all computers now. All of this stuff is much too subjective and serves more as a sales tool than a real technical advance....in my opinion.

Phil Ellis

Added Thought: This addition of HORIZONAL decompression and safety stop ALONE would probably do as much as anything to add to the safety of diving.

 

[DanLVolker]

Interesting reading...........

However, what does any of this have to do with the "new" feature found on these new computers? I view it as nothing more than putting some abritrary "factors" in place based on heart rate. Just like the "personal" fitness settings on almost all computers now. All of this stuff is much too subjective and serves more as a sales tool than a real technical advance....in my opinion.

Phil Ellis

Added Thought: This addition of HORIZONAL decompression and safety stop ALONE would probably do as much as anything to add to the safety of diving.

HI Phil, I agree completely..my first post on this topic was to say that the new computer may be cool as a new "toy", but I think much more would need to be measured before I would consider it as "the next step up"...and I am saying it is not
Regards,
Dan V

 

[DanLVolker]

Lol...Dan posted before I could post my responce.

Scott from rec.scuba ?
How are you doing!!! Email me at dan@sfdj.com and tell me what's new.
REgards,
Dan

 

[DanLVolker]

I would also be interested in learning about nitrogen/oxygen on athletic divers vs. non-athletic divers. One could assume that those with higher VO2 would certainly have reduced nitrogen loading but is this more compartmental with athletes?

Bob,
From what I've seen, my expectation is that the higher the VO2 max and perfusion of an elite athlete, the less you would veiw their offgassing as compartmental---it would be more about controling when you want bubbling to occur, and then maximizing the bubbles at the shallow depths where offgassing can be most effective...This is why George could do a 260 for 25 minute dive , then do a surface interval for an hour and a half, then do the same dive over again...and again, if need be.

Dan

 

[1_T_Submariner]

Hey all thanks for the indepth answers and discussion. I'm not sure I'll ever need any of it but, interesting read. I'll search for what VO2 Max means.

P.S. Dr. Deco answered the orignal question on Page 1.

 

[Thalassamania]

Bob,
From what I've seen, my expectation is that the higher the VO2 max and perfusion of an elite athlete, the less you would veiw their offgassing as compartmental---it would be more about controling when you want bubbling to occur, and then maximizing the bubbles at the shallow depths where offgassing can be most effective...This is why George could do a 260 for 25 minute dive , then do a surface interval for an hour and a half, then do the same dive over again...and again, if need be.

Dan

Der uberdiver would like you to believe that, as would other diving puritans, but such advocacy just demonstrates unter erfassen, since the actual data does not support the concept.

Here at the UHMS scientific meeting, one of the studies presented by French naval researchers is, "Does the VO2 max value predict the formation of intravascular circulating bubbles during decompression of healthy divers?" VO2 max is the most oxygen you can use when doing the most exercise you can do. It is usually higher in people who can do more aerobic exercise (other factors also contribute). The maximum amount of exercise an average person can do is about ten times their resting level of oxygen use. Marathoners usually max at around 20 times better than resting levels. A top aerobic athlete can use about 30 times resting level (a horse - more than twice the top human max). Someone badly out of shape, or with heart disease or other problems that limit ability to get oxygen to cells, generally has a low VO2 max. You can raise your level with regular exercise at any age. It is not set.

In the French study, divers were tested for VO2 max a week before their experimental dive. They avoided any physical exercise 48 hours before the dive. Then half completed a dive in a dry hyperbaric chamber and the other half in the open sea with the same dive profile and decompression stop according to French military decompression table MN90. After the dive they were all tested for presence of small decompression bubbles in the bloodstream.

Bubbles can form in the body painlessly after a dive without creating decompression sickness. It is not the case that bubbles always form after every dive, as often thought. Certain bubbles can be detected audibly (they sound like pops and squeeks) using Doppler ultrasound, and other kinds of instruments being developed. I will post more another time about these bubbles and what ultrasound can and can't determine about bubbles and decompression sickness.

The French researchers found that bubble formation in both types of dive was related to the age and body mass index of the divers, but not to VO2max.

Being in good shape makes many aspects of diving safer, even if it doesn't affect risk of decompression sickness. Being in better aerobic shape helps you swim more easily against currents that may take you away from your dive site or boat. Strengthening your body through weightlifting with good body mechanics helps you lift and haul gear with less chance of injury, and practicing all your physical skills helps you be more able to rescue someone or yourself.

Link

 

[DanLVolker]

Der uberdiver would like you to believe that, as would other diving puritans, but such advocacy just demonstrates unter erfassen, since the actual data does not support the concept.

Link

We had phone conversations with Jollie over 13 years ago..she does not get it, and if she was listened to, WKPP would never have achieved close to what they did.

The proof is in what George and JJ accomplished, along with the thousands of manhours using tables completely against Jollie's concepts of physiology and diving.



Dan

 

[Thalassamania]

We had phone conversations with Jollie over 13 years ago..she does not get it, and if she was listened to, WKPP would never have achieved close to what they did.

The proof is in what George and JJ accomplished, along with the thousands of manhours using tables completely against Jollie's concepts of physiology and diving.



Dan

Rant on, it's always to watch folks who lack data and credentials claim that those who have both, "just don't get it." BTW: the work quoted was not Jolie's, nor does she stand alone with some bizarre view of decompression theory. Perhaps GWIII and JJ's tables work but neither GWIII nor JJ actually understand why. I think that's more likely than the VO2 max explanation, which appears to be totally utterly discredited amongst most thinking physiologists.

 

[DanLVolker]

Rant on, it's always to watch folks who lack data and credentials claim that those who have both, "just don't get it." BTW: the work quoted was not Jolie's, nor does she stand alone with some bizarre view of decompression theory. Perhaps GWIII and JJ's tables work but neither GWIII nor JJ actually understand why. I think that's more likely than the VO2 max explanation, which appears to be totally utterly discredited amongst most thinking physiologists.

How do you discredit people who do what you can not? In any event, I could care less about argueing this. I know this works, as I used these tables myself.
They probably would not work for you though, so go ahead, blow harder.

Dan

 

[bobhog]

Phew. Ok folks back to the topic of HR monitoring... good for future value, I think we can all agree on that. Let's start another topic string on this issue of aerobic capacity and deep diving.

While I can see that GUE and WKPP diving group has achieved a great many incredible tasks. My point on this discussion is this: let's be careful about 1) implying that a certain physiological principle (high VO2max) is positively related to a decrease in DCS risk OR a greater ability to dive deep; and 2) that making a claim or observing an act does not constitute science. The latter point is very important in that if we were to begin hanging our hats on artifact (subjective information) then the potential for harm (in so far as we are discussing a rather dangerous activity) greatly increases.

I would like to find data on this issue. I believe that's the point I was attempting to make. Sorry if I sparked something here Dan. Just point me to some data. I would like to know about these mechanisms.

As a side note, simply because I am new to diving does not imply a lack of knowledge on my part. That is like saying because Einstein never created a nuclear reactor that he did not understand nuclear physics... I wish life were as simple as nuclear physics.