Have you been denied a dive because of the lack of paper dive log (w/ signature)?

[rek_diver]

Well, the AOW card thing is very well discussed here. We know that requiring it probably has only to do with possible lawsuits regardless of one's dive experience. Can't blame them and I read that they are not at all alone on this idea.

I was going to say the same thing. Requiring an AOW card for an advanced dive is typical, and holding this against the Dive Op is unreasonable.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'd come back with a log page torn out, signed by my instructor Naughtious Maximus.

 

[dmaziuk]

Computer dive log wasn't enough?

I've a log book, it came with my PADI OW kit, with OW cert dives written down and signed by the instructor. There is nothing else in there. If I ever get around to doing more "certifying" dives: adventure, specialties, whatever, I'll get them written in there and signed too. I imagine that's what the shop wanted to see: "night specialty" officially done and signed for, whatever their reasons may be. Not the same thing as having umpteen dives on my computer, some timestamped at dark o'clock.

 

[dmaziuk]

I was going to say the same thing. Requiring an AOW card for an advanced dive is typical, and holding this against the Dive Op is unreasonable.

No but the reasonable ones want some other indicator that you can actually dive. Like, going on a couple of easier dives with them first. They'll take AOW instead if they have to.

 

[rek_diver]

No but the reasonable ones want some other indicator that you can actually dive. Like, going on a couple of easier dives with them first. They'll take AOW instead if they have to.

Don't agree, and here's an example from our recent trip to Key Largo last month:

We did most of our diving with Rainbow Reef, but they don't do the 3-tank "wreck trek" so we booked it with Ocean Divers who require an AOW card and the divers must attest to a recent deep dive (I forget how deep and how recent but whatever). The 3 of us showed up that morning, signed in for our dives, presented our AOW cards, and I had a brief discussion with the dive Op staff for the benefit of my older sister, who with over 700 dives to her name never bothered with her AOW and only got it at my urging during our Rainbow Reef dives the previous 3 days but never stopped complaining to me about it. Ocean Divers confirmed that they will not allow a diver on their wreck trek without an AOW (so my sister didn't waste her time and money on the course).

So in summary, it's not always reasonable to do a checkout dive prior to doing a deep dive with a particular Op. The AOW + a signed waiver and acknowledgement of recent diving experience is sufficient, from both a safety and liability standpoint. Of course someone can sue for anything but I'm thinking if a diver is going to lie when they fill out the waiver, it's going to matter to a jury should there be an accident due to a lack oof experience or training- which is unlikely to happen if a diver is honest about their recent diving experience.

 

[dmaziuk]

As I said, "they'll take AOW instead if they have to". Plus in FL you're talking merrikin lawyers. My experience is further South and so far nobody's refused to take us deeper than 20 feet, or to sites marked as "advanced".

 

[txgoose]

I'd come back with a log page torn out, signed by my instructor Naughtious Maximus.

This was going to be my point. How in the world are they going to verify the signature? Do certified instructors log their license numbers and signatures in a database? What keeps someone from tearing out a piece of log book paper, scrawling a name on it and swimming? I can't figure out what they protected themselves from.

Did they photo copy everyone's logbook sheet? Without copies of everyone's sheets I'm not sure they remembered to ask for everyone. Speaking as opposing counsel.

 

[dmaziuk]

"Due diligence". They saw an officially-looking log book with genuine-looking instructor credentials under the signature, they've done their "due diligence". Recognizing a masterfully-crafted fake is above and beyond their area of expertise and therefore their "due diligence" doesn't go that far. Again, nothing to do with the actual diver and/or their actual skill level.

 

[txgoose]

"Due diligence". They saw an officially-looking log book with genuine-looking instructor credentials under the signature, they've done their "due diligence". Recognizing a masterfully-crafted fake is above and beyond their area of expertise and therefore their "due diligence" doesn't go that far. Again, nothing to do with the actual diver and/or their actual skill level.

I'm with you. I was thinking of my Boy Scouts experiences, but it didn't take me long to recognize that the only certs they truly track are the certs provided by BSA. If you get your (first aid, etc) certs through Red Cross or others, they could be faked as well. Just surprised that these types of things, requirements that may or may not be required, aren't more cohesive across the industry. Even if the government isn't involved there are usually trade groups that have generally accepted best practices? I haven't been around this game long enough to know anything about a trade group or the stories involved about failed attempts, etc. The trade group would be different from certification orgs.

 

[xmass-Eve]

Well, the AOW card thing is very well discussed here. We know that requiring it probably has only to do with possible lawsuits regardless of one's dive experience. Can't blame them and I read that they are not at all alone on this idea.

Kinda sad for the older divers that never even got a card when they started...