Has anyone ever gone back?

[ACR]

A well designed BCD with the right number of d-rings, storage pockets, weight pockets, trim pockets etc... can be less money, less headache and a lot safer.

For my own education can you iterate the reasons why a Jacket Style BC is safer than a BP/W? Also, what is an appropriate number of d-rings for a 'standard' rec configuration?

Thanks!

 

[RoyN]

Looks like I joined the group I had problems with before. Just gone to the long hose configuration, drysuit and bp/w. All I need now is get rid of my smartcom and go with SPG, bottom timer, and a VT3. Now I cannot seem to be able to go back especially with the drysuit now. The only information I need is how to sling a Al40 tank.

 

[sheck33]

For the record... I see no real purpose for the BP/W set up... especially the "Hogarthian" set up which is something completely different from a BP/W set up.

BCD's per se do everything a BP/W set up does and a whole lot more. I consider myself a minimalist... and a BP/W is too minimal to meet my minimalist standards.

I have tried BP/W and found it to be inadequate. I had no problems adjusting weighting etc... but why buy simplicity only to have to add all the other things to it? No pockets - you have to add pockets... not enough D-rings... you have to add d-rings, no weight integration - you have to add weight pockets... etc... in the end it looks alot like a BCD.

A well designed BCD with the right number of d-rings, storage pockets, weight pockets, trim pockets etc... can be less money, less headache and a lot safer.

The one true benefit of a BP/W is if it is stainless you can remove alot of weight elsewhere and have it more centered in your core body on your back, so why do some use the ABS plastic or aluminum BP's?

If you want some great BCD's that knock BP/W's out the box... try the new Hollis ATS or HD100 or the Omega Zone II or Scubapro Knighthawk. You could also go with a softpack such as the Dive Rite Transpac w/ Wing and lots of other more common sense options.

I'm sure I'll get beat over the head with this post... but the facts are the facts. If you like BP/W configurations then go for it. I say everyone should dive what makes them happy... We sell BP/W configurations to those that want them... and we sell BCD's to those that want them.

It is not a step up (in my opinion) to go from a BCD to a BP/W... it is a lateral move or a preference... and it is the same if you go in the other direction from BP/W to a BCD.

My BP/W hardly looks like a BCD sold in LDS's with pockets you cant get to, 25 D-rings, a lot of padding that makes those things horribly buoyant and other assorted junk that is useless. It is the standard BCD's that are a headache.

I agree, dive what makes you happy, its a free country but I'd not switch back to a classic BCD in a million years. I use a DIR setup in OW class as well as the instructor doesn't care. I'd not be involved in OW classes if I was forced to wear a standard BCD.

I consider myself a minimalist... and a BP/W is too minimal to meet my minimalist standards.

I am not sure what you mean by that statement.

 

[stimpy4242]

I think he is saying its a balloon with an attachment point...

 

[TSandM]

but why buy simplicity only to have to add all the other things to it? No pockets - you have to add pockets... not enough D-rings... you have to add d-rings, no weight integration - you have to add weight pockets... etc... in the end it looks alot like a BCD.

Mine doesn't look like a BCD. I use a weight belt, and have pockets on my dry suit (or X-shorts when wet). Everything I take diving is neatly stowed using those pockets and the 3 d-rings on the harness. There is no bulk on the front of my body. I can easily reach everything and get it out for use, and restow it afterward. Yes, I had to invest in a couple of additional pieces -- the weight belt, and the pockets. It was worth it.

 

[offthewall1]

For my own education can you iterate the reasons why a Jacket Style BC is safer than a BP/W? Also, what is an appropriate number of d-rings for a 'standard' rec configuration?

Thanks!

NOTE: My opinions are just that - my opinions

Jacket style BCDs' are safer than BP/W set ups for a number of reasons... but not all the reasons apply in every situation. Here are a few reasons jackets "are often" safer than BP/W's

1. Jacket style BCD's offer more core body protection. The BP/W is usually open in the front... which is what those who wear it seem to like - however this exposure of the abdomen and core body leaves more chance of slicing ones self open on jagged edges while doing limited and low vis wreck penetrations where squeezing through tight areas is required.

2. Many BCD's have additional dump valves Wings do not - this of course depends on the wing and the configuration of the inflator/deflator. BCD's usually have easier to find dumps. When rec divers are diving with their tec buddies... they may or may not be able to figure out how to dump air in an emergency.

3. If in an emergency weight must be dumped... this could mean needing to remove all of the equipment instead of just ditching weights. A SS backplate can weight 6 - 8 lbs and many tec divers mount additonal weights in non-ditchable pockets or on the plates themselves. They also tend to use weighted tank boots in combination with heavy plates to eliminate weight anywhere else. Dumping their weight at the surface can be an impossibility.

I'll leave it there for now... expecting lots of comments

 

[Pearldiver07]

I'm not even going to touch the previous post about why jacket BCDs are better, but I will say that when I travel to do rec dives I have a Scubapro Equator, wrist mount with AI, and an Air2, and Full foot fins, but I still won't give up that long hose.

During local, drive to, tech, and dry diving, you'll have to pry that BP/W away from me.

I just like the extreme light weight I've acheived in my travel rig.

I am aware of the comprimizes involved, and plan accordingly. I believe that most issues relating to gear usage come from not honestly appraising the risks and adjusting for them, not the gear itself.

Anyway, that's my input.

 

[sheck33]

NOTE: My opinions are just that - my opinions

Jacket style BCDs' are safer than BP/W set ups for a number of reasons... but not all the reasons apply in every situation. Here are a few reasons jackets "are often" safer than BP/W's

1. Jacket style BCD's offer more core body protection. The BP/W is usually open in the front... which is what those who wear it seem to like - however this exposure of the abdomen and core body leaves more chance of slicing ones self open on jagged edges while doing limited and low vis wreck penetrations where squeezing through tight areas is required.

You cant be serious.

2. Many BCD's have additional dump valves Wings do not - this of course depends on the wing and the configuration of the inflator/deflator. BCD's usually have easier to find dumps. When rec divers are diving with their tec buddies... they may or may not be able to figure out how to dump air in an emergency.

Exactly how many dumpvalves do you need? The simplicity of a BP/W actually makes it far easier to do just about anything in an emergency. Modern jacket style BCD's are often the culmination of years of adding valves & dumps and other un-necessary garbage to give them the look of a 23rd century miracle device. I personally cant really imagine any situation where a jacket BC would be 'safer' than a properly set up BP/W.

3. If in an emergency weight must be dumped... this could mean needing to remove all of the equipment instead of just ditching weights. A SS backplate can weight 6 - 8 lbs and many tec divers mount additonal weights in non-ditchable pockets or on the plates themselves. They also tend to use weighted tank boots in combination with heavy plates to eliminate weight anywhere else. Dumping their weight at the surface can be an impossibility.

Again, with a properly weighed rig there is no need to ditch any weight. And how is a jacket BC safer? You can't ditch a BP/W setup?

 

[4sak3n]

1. Jacket style BCD's offer more core body protection. The BP/W is usually open in the front... which is what those who wear it seem to like - however this exposure of the abdomen and core body leaves more chance of slicing ones self open on jagged edges while doing limited and low vis wreck penetrations where squeezing through tight areas is required.

Because that big, bad jagged hunk of metal which is able to rip right through thick neoprene or rugged trilam and thick undergarments is really going to have a tough time cutting through the oh-so-protective layer of jacket. :blinking:

You know, using your type of logic J-valves are safer than SPGs because they have no glass in them so when they break you won't cut yourself.

I apologise if what I wrote is offensive but I really don't believe that your opinions make any sense at all. I'm not saying that jackets aren't a perfectly fine piece of dive equipment. They are ... but certainly not for the reasons that you listed.

 

[LiteHedded]

NOTE: My opinions are just that - my opinions

Jacket style BCDs' are safer than BP/W set ups for a number of reasons... but not all the reasons apply in every situation. Here are a few reasons jackets "are often" safer than BP/W's

1. Jacket style BCD's offer more core body protection. The BP/W is usually open in the front... which is what those who wear it seem to like - however this exposure of the abdomen and core body leaves more chance of slicing ones self open on jagged edges while doing limited and low vis wreck penetrations where squeezing through tight areas is required.

wow
really?