Has anyone been denied a c-card ?

[TCDiver1]

IMO a big chunk of the "lack of thoroughness" in training is what is done at some resorts. In my travels i have seen OW certs given out in a weeks vacation. Now if the student & instructor dedicate most of their week to the OW class, it can be done.

But that is not what i have seen as the norm. You see these students doing the same things you are, sunning, taking other tours, in the bar, etc, when they should be in OW class. If you came to our neck of the woods on vacation, & took OW, 4 to 5 days of your vacation would be spent on OW training only.

There is a lot of pressure on these resort based instructors to let the student still "have fun" on their vacation, therefore cut corners to save time.

It's great to hear jeffsterinsf's story of one of these instructors acually doing their job but from what i have seen it's the exception to the rule at most resorts

 

[chiara]

The first and only time I brought someone totally new to diving to my club I had just started my DM course.

I had been talking about my upcoming diving trip to Thailand and she asked me if she could come and have a look.

She did the introdive in the pool, she was so happy she actually enrolled in the course.

First problem (not mine, the instructor's): she asked if she could pay in two times, as she said she was a bit in trouble at the moment, she was accorded this although with the promise she would pay the rest before the end of the year (it was early October).

When she started official pool sessions it was obvious she would never be mistaken for a natural, but I have often remarked that girls have more problems at the beginning.

Things never got better: the two guys who had started with her were long finished with their pool and theory, she was not half way through.

On one of the video sessions she arrived totally drunk and fell asleep before half an hour: I felt bad, because the night was organised at my apartment and it was very difficult to convince her she should at least get up from the unconfortable sofa and go sleep in my second bedroom (although when she finally decided it was time to wake up she insisted she should be accompanied home).

Christmas and New Year came, she never paid the second half of the course's fees, one night at the pool she had a very bad case of nerves, she was never seen again.

I don't think she ever managed to get certified, Belgium is quite a small community, we would have known by now.

 

[DivePartner1]

I don't think resorts are inherently bad--I think it always depends on the instructor.

I took my OW (SSI) in an over-populated class of about 14. Even my non-diving GF of the day could tell two shouldn't have been certified (a terrified wife and no-it-all who never managed to get submerged because of an 'earache'). They were certified anyway. Observers were impressed by the general sense of chaos in the dive class. So were the divers (I never went back to that LDS).

A month later I took AOW (PADI) and Nitrox (TDI) in Cayman Brac. I had private individual tutoring from three(!) superb instructors. From one in particular, I learned bouyancy skills superior to any of the veterans I was diving with at the time. Maybe I got lucky, but it's all about the individuals, not the agency or the site.

 

[TCDiver1]

DivePartner1 once bubbled...
I don't think resorts are inherently bad--I think it always depends on the instructor.

I took my OW (SSI) in an over-populated class of about 14. Even my non-diving GF of the day could tell two shouldn't have been certified (a terrified wife and no-it-all who never managed to get submerged because of an 'earache'). They were certified anyway. Observers were impressed by the general sense of chaos in the dive class. So were the divers (I never went back to that LDS).

A month later I took AOW (PADI) and Nitrox (TDI) in Cayman Brac. I had private individual tutoring from three(!) superb instructors. From one in particular, I learned bouyancy skills superior to any of the veterans I was diving with at the time. Maybe I got lucky, but it's all about the individuals, not the agency or the site.

Yeah, thats why i said "some." I'm glad to hear you had a great experience at a resort. Cayman Brac is great isn't it?

One point to ponder though, OW is by far the most demanding to teach of the three classes you mentioned. Especially a class of 14. Don't know how many other instructors or certified assistants were present for your OW class but IMO if the student to instructor/assistant ratio was more than 3 or 4 to one, it gets even harder.

Chaos theory .... LOL .... it goes hand in hand with OW training

 

[Divesherpa]

Hey Radagalf,
Sounds like your instructor needs to spend more time in confined water with the student.
Anxiety of this nature has to be worked out psychologically, not by offering to put back in OW. Get the individual prepared in the pool, OW should be a piece of cake. OW is to demonstrate comfort, not complete a few questionable skills!!

 

[radagalf]

If you read and understood my post you will have noted the following:

Quote: "...they are asked if they would like to come back during the next OW pool sessions, and practice their skills again, thus giving them the extra time to develop their skills (and most of the time it is just developing their confidence)."

He was in the pool on Tuesday and Thursday by the way.

He was allowed to continue the open water dives because he was comfortable with the other skills, and why deny a person to dive? Aren't we supposed to be promoting diving as a recreation, and what better way than letting them come on a few extra open water dives under the supervision of an instructor and divemaster?

 

[Divesherpa]

I guess the contradiction in terms of OW and pool threw me off.

It's either one or the other.

Cheers

 

[radagalf]

That would've done it... my mistake, confined water..

 

[Goeduck]

I just started taking classes again ( I was certified in 1976, but never dove after that) and I am in a class of 6. During the first pool session, where we had to take out "aquatics test", one person didn't even come close to finishing the surface swim, he did the water treading portion (right next to the wall), but he declined to do the underwater swimming portion. Needless to say, the instructor would not allow him to even suit up for the first "scuba" portion of the pool session.

I kinda feel sorry for him, but he admitted that he was so totally out of shape. Somehow, unless he does a lot of practicing this weekend, he won't be even continueing the class, which is kinda too bad, because he was brilliant in the classroom part. I think he knows he won't be able to finish.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

neil once bubbled...
Drew,
If a student can't read well, you are allowed to give their test orally.I just make sure they can read and use tables.

Neil

Yeah, except he was too young.

From PADI Instructor Manual:

Junior divers must meet all requirements for Open Water Diver or PADI Scuba Diver certification other than age. Certification depends on competency and student ability to understand dive concepts. Students must independently complete written PADI Open Water Diver Quizzes and Exams — oral exams are not permitted for divers under the age of 15 (except when diagnosed with a learning disability – see “General Standards and Procedures” for exam policy.) Keep quiz and exam answer sheets as part of each Junior diver’s records.

While I strongly suspect he has a learning disability, I cannot give oral exams to a kid without a doctor's diagnosis of LD