Has anyone been denied a c-card ?

[TCDiver1]

In my basic OW class we had one student, an exchange student from Finland, who didn't know how to swim. The instructor had him take the class twice. Once to learn how to swim and once for OW certification. He did fine the second time around

If someone wants the cert bad enough, they will work hard to get it. So there is no good reason to cut corners with established standards. Most instructors i know, myself included, will work lots of extra hours, at no extra cost, with skill challanged students to help them get certified. Some don't.

Not sure because i have not kept track of it but i would guess 10 to 20% of the people i have taught did not get certified for various reasons. The biggest reason. Some people can not handle water against their nose, period. Next biggest reason would be not taking skill development seriously therefore not adequately developing the basic skills required by standards.

The worse one i had was an Attorney who felt bouncing off the bottom was the proper way to dive and felt hovering was a non-essential skill. He stirred up a major sh*t storm for me with Padi regarding not getting his c-card. To Padi's credit, they send him packin after they had talked to me & the other students in the class. They also informed him of the number of Attorney's at Vinc. & Buckley, just waiting to rip him a new one, if he would like to pursue the issue further. Case closed, thanking my lucky star for insurance.

 

[O-ring]

...It is a good thing I do not teach it, as I have no idea how I do it. I thought about the first question on my rebreather exam, "What kills the most rebreather divers". I had answered, "Rule Number One", Jack Kellon got pissed , he said "Task loading". He told me Tom Mount had answered that question correctly, and he failed me and Bill Mee. We laughed until we cried, "Task Loading". Bill Mee and I are the only guys who ever failed the rebreather test...

 

[Diversauras]

The semantics and the dynamics of failing a student may vary but in 20+ years I have failed 12 or 15 students. When a class opens all the cards are ordered so that upon completion the cards can be awarded. Those failing don't get them. I have as I said, 12 or 15 of these cards in a file drawer. The reason vary from student to student but never was it a case of can't. It was always some variation of didn't really want it to begin with.

 

[Divesherpa]

I've failed one cavern student and certified a few people as PADI Scuba Divers instead of PADI OW Divers. With the Scuba Diver certification the Diver is allowed in the water under direct supervision of a DM or Instructor. This seems to work for the student and for me. I haven't had anyone that would not be OK under direct supervision of an instructor.
I've had quite a few students that required many extra hours of pool work, but like Ferrara said, the pay for a class, they earn a Certification.
Cheers

 

[MikeFerrara]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

You are one of the good guys.
I wish you were out here so I could send folks to you for certification.

Thanks UP. That means something comming from you, especially as much as I argue with ya. I can't help it though, it's kinda my nature.

 

[The Chairman]

I have five students who have not yet "passed". Three will probably finally get their certification, but I have little hope for the other two. I am not counting those who are currently "taking" a class either. I will not charge extra for their extra class/pool/OW time, but by rights, I probably should!

 

[jeffsterinsf]

I gained even greater respect for my Carribean-based instructor when I watched him tell a vacationing traveller that he wouldn't give them a c-card since they couldn't reliably clear their mask. All their protests about their performance at home in the pool didn't change the instructor's mind.

...restores confidence that there can be good instructors out there no matter where you are.

 

[Snoopy]

Glad to hear that there are still a degree of respect & conditions to the issuing the c-cards.

Why I raise this issue ?

In recent 2 weeks, there are 2 fatalities in Malaysia involving young adult & newly certified divers - one got the c-card last month and another a year ago but has not dive since. I will not speculate the actual reason and the cause of death, and will awaits the official reports on this.

Drowned woman had divemaster as her buddy

The fact about them being newbies draws my attention. Was the instructions, while covering the essential points in the "instructor's slate" and may be of sub standards or being c-card mill ? The latter, a result of price competition amoungst the dive instructions and cost cutting measure, that may mean extra time in the water could not be commercially viable.

I am a reactional diver with advanced ratings and no commercial interest in the industry (as yet).

 

[radagalf]

At the dive shop I have just recently completed my DM at, and am DMing at as of now, I have seen them deny cert-cards to quite a few people. However, if the person is genuinely trying his best, sometimes they are asked if they would like to come back during the next OW pool sessions, and practice their skills again, thus giving them the extra time to develop their skills (and most of the time it is just developing their confidence).

Recently, a young man didn't make his cert as in the open water dives, he was unable to take off his mask. The first time he half-flooded his mask, he paniced and bloted for the service with the instructor holding onto him keeping him at a safe ascent rate. We talked with him after the dive, and told him that he was welcome to come on the dives after that, and to do the skills he felt comfortable with, but we would ask himfirst if he wanted to do them. In later dives, you go on to the full-mask flood, and later the mask removal and replacement. Each time he was asked if he wanted to do either of these skills, he declined. Although he did all the other skills very well (better than most of the other students I must say), he was declined his card.

The above is just one example, in my 4 months at the shop, I must've seen at least 4 or 5 people denied their cards (4OW and 1AOW).

 

[neil]

Like Mike, I don't sell cards. I also don't fail students, they do do that themselves.
I have denied students their certs for various reasons. I never forget that MY name is on that card.

Dive classes are not seminars: you don't get a card for showing up and trying out the skills. I say those exact words up front and let them know that it is possible to fail the course.
Like many instructors, I'm likely to give extra time gratis to anyone falling behind, but there are (ill-defined) limits.

Drew,
If a student can't read well, you are allowed to give their test orally.I just make sure they can read and use tables.

Neil