Handling octopuses?

[scubadada]

I wonder how many of the divers who take a strict "no touch" - "no physical interaction" and "no modification of the animals natural behavior" attitude... will happily go on a shark feeding dive?

Because.. you know... it is educational.. and it is important that people understand the animal better..

Hey dD,

Doing most of our diving in SE FL, the shark feeding dives are nearly daily news for us and a controversial topic. No, I don't go on those dives. I did have 3 dives on Area 29 with Jupiter Dive Center in early February with the Lemon Sharks, those were a blast, no feeding involved.

 

[danvolker]

The people there hunt and eat octopus, so "bothering" one for a few minutes and releasing it unharmed may seem somewhat innocuous to the local DM. Of course it is disruptive to the individual animals daily behavoir, but I am not so sure it is particularly harmful.

I wonder how many of the divers who take a strict "no touch" - "no physical interaction" and "no modification of the animals natural behavior" attitude... will happily go on a shark feeding dive?

Because.. you know... it is educational.. and it is important that people understand the animal better..

Sort of reminds me of one of the issues in cattle farming....a recent outrage by some consumer groups, over the cows that were waiting to be slaughtered , being inhumanely treated by some workers in the days before their slaughter...punching of the cows...kicking, pretty inconsiderate behavior. To these workers, it was a "dead cow walking".....to the fisherman/dms, maybe the octopi were the same....

Maybe there are just some people that will behave and enjoy behaviors the rest of us consider disgusting...like the cow punching. Some DM's may therefor, deserve to be treated with contempt, regardless of whether the octopus will be eaten later or not...

 

[Storker]

Sort of reminds me of one of the issues in cattle farming....a recent outrage by some consumer groups, over the cows that were waiting to be slaughtered , being inhumanely treated by some workers in the days before their slaughter...punching of the cows...kicking, pretty inconsiderate behavior. To these workers, it was a "dead cow walking".....

That's just deplorable. I'm a happy carnivore and have absolutely no problems with hunting and harvesting as long as it's done humanely, in a sustainable manner and with mininal effect on the ecosystem. In fact, I quite enjoy doing it myself. But I still believe that unless you're planning on taking a critter home for supper, you should leave it well alone. Harassing animals can't be excused by the fact that you're going to eat it later.


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[scubadada]

There's a short article in the May Undercurrent discussing the post that prompted me to start this thread (pp 9-10). Apparently this is not a new complaint, first addressed in Undercurrent in 2008

 

[Dr. Lecter]

So, to be clear: as long as I stuff it in a bag and take it home to make poke out of, grabbing the tako (and likely beating the Hell out of it in the process) is just fine. But, if I want to catch one more gently, play with it and let it walk around on me a bit, and then return it to its hole so an eel won't get a free snack, that's a crime against nature?

Some people are their own position's worst enemy. It's extremely hard to take anything said about wildlife welfare seriously when it's included amongst such dreck.

 

[KrisB]

Lecter: what you do in your free time is different from what you do with a half-dozen vacation divers watching.

Additionally, taking it home serves a purpose (you've got to eat), whereas playing with it just entertains.

 

[kelemvor]

Lecter: what you do in your free time is different from what you do with a half-dozen vacation divers watching.

Additionally, taking it home serves a purpose (you've got to eat), whereas playing with it just entertains.

Providing entertainment puts food on some DM's tables... Does that alter your opinion?

 

[KrisB]

If you could be guaranteed that the entertainment was actually going to universally entertain (and provide for) the DM, that would be a different story.

There are many divers (myself included) who will withhold a gratuity when wildlife is played with... (do note from my badge that I am, uh, rather aware of the dive industry). So even if one of the divers tips a bit extra for the show, you're likely to end up with less "food on the table" than if you hadn't played with it.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Lecter: what you do in your free time is different from what you do with a half-dozen vacation divers watching.

Additionally, taking it home serves a purpose (you've got to eat), whereas playing with it just entertains.

So if it's the customers doing the playing (assuming we're not in a marine sanctuary that prohibits such things), it's all peachy...but you think the DM has some obligation to behave differently (absent the dive op for which they work making a business decision that they'll cater to the hippy dippy crowd and ordering all DMs to follow a no-touch policy w/r/t marine life)? Whatever you like to think, I suppose.

I'm not sure what point you think you're making with the purpose/entertains contrast. Eating tako poke, rather than just eating, is no more essential to my (or most people's) survival than entertainment is. Driving to the dive site and going diving is also just for entertainment and undoubtably has a greater ecological impact than playing with an octopus while actively trying to avoid causing harm to it (while accepting you're increasing the animal's stress level and risk of becoming something's meal). Get over yourself and go play with the critters some

 

[KrisB]

Lecter: perhaps I should clarify further: if a DM is spearfishing / gathering dinner (whether tako, ulua or otherwise) while guiding divers, that is even worse than playing with the octopus.

A DM has a much higher standard and should be setting the example for appropriate encounters with marine life -- harassing them is not one of them.

If you stick your hand out, and the octopus comes to play, that's different. If you use a metal rod to poke and prod it out of its hole, then proceed to have it ink repeatedly while preventing it from hiding itself again, that's wrong.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if we were talking about dogs. Everyone knows that there is a difference between petting a dog that approached you and poking a dog with a stick, then blocking its ability to escape. The former is acceptable, the latter is inappropriate.