Hand signal to end/terminate dive?

[Gareth J]

I’m not talking about required deco stops. I’m talking about optional safety stops. There is a difference.

Your absolutely correct, why are we even having a discussion. The clue is in the name optional safety stop.

Whilst I would prefer people do the safety stop, primarily because it slows ascent rates and ensures divers have good buoyancy control, it should have negligible impact on the safety of a N.S. dive.

 

[_Ralph]

There are many ways to ‘end a dive’ and at least n+1 ways to signal that…

If a thumb is thrown, we’re going up, no site seeing, deco/safety stops as required unless communicated.

Thumb with a finger (direction), we’re going back, no site seeing on the way to our anchor, entrance, shore, etc

Finger in a spin, turn around, site see.


Beverage (Beer) signal, head back, stop to see something cool, and head to the pub for a warm and or cold beverage.


All are statements, not questions (unless prefaced with a question signal).


Anything different, hopefully communicated before the dive, else we follow whomever signaled as they’re leading the way back to the surface, then discuss.
_R

 

[BoltSnap]

To me, and how I was trained, is thumbs up always means dive over, return to the ascent point (if required), and ascend. That is how I use it and how I've always seen it used. It is not used for "move to a shallower depth". That is a different signal ... one hand, palm down, moved from one side to the other, then lifted higher and repeated. It signals the desire to move to a shallower depth and hold there.

No, it doesn't have to mean that, it just means go up. An end dive signal doesn't have to mean to ascend. It just means go to the exist point which can be 200 meters away and hence end the dive signal has to be a unique signal that you agree on with your buddy before starting the dive. The "end the dive" signal can mean go up or taking a compass direction towards the exist point and swimming towards the exit point u/w, whatever was agreed on before the dive. There is a "turn around" signal which mean let's turn around and head back towards the exist point (because we have reached our depth/distance limit or turn around pressure) and isn't as urgent as "end the dive" signal. With "end the dive signal" means no further activities, such as photo or spearfishing or whatever, and just take a compass bearing towards exit point (or go up to the surface if that was the plan). With the "turn around" signal, you can still continue to spearfish or take picture or whatever but you are swimming directly towards the exist point underwater.

I do a lot of diving from shore, and less from boat, and I have to be VERY precise with signals and not leave room for misunderstanding with my buddies. If I am on a dive and away from the shore exist point, sometimes almost a mile away, giving the up signal means not only "end the dive" but also mean "there is an urgent issue and I need to be on the surface now" in contrast to the "end the dive" signal which means turn around and swim towards the exit point, usually shore or an anchored boat at a distance, and swim directly towards that point.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

No, it doesn't have to mean that, it just means go up. An end dive signal doesn't have to mean to ascend. It just means go to the exist point which can be 200 meters away and hence end the dive signal has to be a unique signal that you agree on with your buddy before starting the dive. The "end the dive" signal can mean go up or taking a compass direction towards the exist point and swimming towards the exit point u/w, whatever was agreed on before the dive.

What part of my "...thumbs up always means dive over, return to the ascent point (if required), and ascend" did you not understand? You just quoted my message, said you didn't agree, and yet said the same thing I had said in 10x the number of words. I believe we are in full agreement. Thumbs up = dive over = initiate the process to safely end the dive.

Any sort of GO UP NOW type of signal would need to be established, if applicable, by the dive team. I agree with you on that.

 

[Subcooled]

I'm looking for clarification and (hopefully) consensus on the hand signal to be used to terminate a dive.

It is best to discuss hand signals with your buddy before the dive.

While at it, you could also discuss and agree on your goal(s) for the dive, discuss your equipment and how they differ, the dive plan, ...

...and remember, you do not split up after the thumbs up signal but you will retain eye contact with your buddy during the whole ascent. If your buddy should suddenly stop ascending, then show him the thumb once more... Note that your buddy might also stop ascending because of a problem, such as a reverse block, in which case your presence would be really appreciated during the much longer and troublesome ascent needed. So, keep eye contact and communication will be easier, you stay together, and the dive is safer.

Also, are there others signs which may be more effective which could be adopted universally (no, I'm not narc'd).

You could also hold your palm horizontal and then elevate it 10 inches, like an elevator, to indicate that you want to go to a shallower level.
This signal is regularly used on dives with mandatory decompression stops.

Or...
you could suggest a direction to swim into (even diagonally up) by pointing into that direction with you hand (palm), followed by eye contact. I reserve pointing with one finger for the "look there" sign - the "look" sign and the pointing.

Agreement is the key to happiness.

This is good (for bare hands or wet gloves, not for mittens):

 

[Divin'Papaw]

This whole thread, as interesting as it is, is yet another reason why I prefer solo diving.

 

[Subcooled]

This whole thread, as interesting as it is, is yet another reason why I prefer solo diving.

Solo diving is less task loaded indeed. When I once accidentally tied myself to the bottom in zero viz, I was really happy to be solo. I could focus 100% on freeing myself and there was no buddy about requiring additional attention. One just needs a line tended standby diver to remove the hassle of buddy communication (easy instructions here).

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Solo diving is less task loaded indeed. When I once accidentally tied myself to the bottom in zero viz, I was really happy to be solo. I could focus 100% on freeing myself and there was no buddy about requiring additional attention. One just needs a line tended standby diver to remove the hassle of buddy communication (easy instructions here).

I take great pains to avoid that while solo diving. I've also taken great pains to be able to handle the situation if it occurs. Ain't gonna happen on my watch. YMMV. Back to the regularly scheduled content.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I've always thought of signs like words in a language. Words have meanings, but how you string them together or context really helps. At the risk of getting philosophical, it seems like there are different ways of approaching this.

E.g., my buddy and I are hanging out at our safety stop. Thumbs up and OK signs is a question. "You ready to go up?" Thumbs up a couple of times or urgently means "I'm gone." Context usually tells you the difference.

There's also a substantial difference between "ascend NOW" and "return to the ascent point and ascend NOW." The vast majority of my diving is shore-based, swimming up an incline at the end of the dive. If a student diver signs "cold, thumbs up," I wouldn't immediately surface because they're not necessarily going to get warmer faster swimming in on the surface. I'd use something like turn the dive or a lateral thumb motion to indicate direction of travel toward the beach, followed by interrogative OK? An experienced buddy gives me a thumbs up at 100' deep off Mukilteo, Washington I'm assuming we're going STRAIGHT up and there'll be a long surface swim to shore. There will be no "return to the (planned) ascent point." If we're inside a wreck in the Caribbean, I presume it means we get out first rather than try to pound our way through decks. Again, context matters.

And absolutely go over signs with new buddies. I'm guilty of using the flat palm over thumb up to indicate ascend to a depth, and then indicate either a number or indicate "a little bit" with thumb and forefinger. But I also go over this with buddies if I'm leading a dive. They don't like it, I'll use whatever they prefer.

The last dive I did was a night dive with AOW students. At one point I rolled over on my back, threw out my left hand and clutched my chest with my right hand. A very fat or pregnant seal had been accompanying us, using our lights to hunt. The fish it was after did a 180 and came straight at me. So did the seal. At the last second the fish turned. I wasn't sure the seal was going to make the turn before ramming me. It did, but we were all a little surprised. My students got a laugh out of my reaction and had no trouble interpreting a sarcastic, made-up-on-the-spot gesture. Context matters.

Apropos of nothing, seal bellies are remarkably squishy as they rub off you during a turn. Especially if the seal is fat or pregnant.

 

[Subcooled]

I've always thought of signs like words in a language. Words have meanings, but how you string them together or context really helps. At the risk of getting philosophical, it seems like there are different ways of approaching this.

E.g., my buddy and I are hanging out at our safety stop. Thumbs up and OK signs is a question. "You ready to go up?" Thumbs up a couple of times or urgently means "I'm gone." Context usually tells you the difference.

There's also a substantial difference between "ascend NOW" and "return to the ascent point and ascend NOW."

Thumb up
vs
Point a finger towards the exit and put the thumb up
vs
Rotate your index finger vertically to show that you want to turn around
vs
Show the midfinger "Cartman: **** you guys, I'm going home".

The vast majority of my diving is shore-based, swimming up an incline at the end of the dive. If a student diver signs "cold, thumbs up," I wouldn't immediately surface because they're not necessarily going to get warmer faster swimming in on the surface. I'd use something like turn the dive or a lateral thumb motion to indicate direction of travel toward the beach, followed by interrogative OK? An experienced buddy gives me a thumbs up at 100' deep off Mukilteo, Washington I'm assuming we're going STRAIGHT up and there'll be a long surface swim to shore. There will be no "return to the (planned) ascent point." If we're inside a wreck in the Caribbean, I presume it means we get out first rather than try to pound our way through decks. Again, context matters.

And absolutely go over signs with new buddies. I'm guilty of using the flat palm over thumb up to indicate ascend to a depth, and then indicate either a number or indicate "a little bit" with thumb and forefinger. But I also go over this with buddies if I'm leading a dive. They don't like it, I'll use whatever they prefer.

The last dive I did was a night dive with AOW students. At one point I rolled over on my back, threw out my left hand and clutched my chest with my right hand. A very fat or pregnant seal had been accompanying us, using our lights to hunt. The fish it was after did a 180 and came straight at me. So did the seal. At the last second the fish turned. I wasn't sure the seal was going to make the turn before ramming me. It did, but we were all a little surprised. My students got a laugh out of my reaction and had no trouble interpreting a sarcastic, made-up-on-the-spot gesture. Context matters.

Apropos of nothing, seal bellies are remarkably squishy as they rub off you during a turn. Especially if the seal is fat or pregnant.