Halloween ScubaBoard Get Together- Hunt or not to Hunt

[Cacia]

If it's legal, it's ok with me....just like yesterday....

Spearing fish on an established artificial reef that has been placed to attract fish for divers, photographers, tourists in the submarines, etc, would be a very bad idea. Even if one does not have an ethical problem with it, the politics in this dive community will never tolerate this. I do not have a problem with freediving speargunners who hunt and stalk fish in the open ocean. Spearing on the YO257 or the Sea Tiger is unacceptable and I would consider poaching. Please know that this is nothing personal against anyone. I think maybe you all have just not thought this through.....Just because it is legal does not make it right. I know many people in the dive community that would split a gut over this. trust me, please do not spear on these wrecks.

 

[MilitantMedic]

Spearing fish on an established artificial reef that has been placed to attract fish for divers, photographers, tourists in the submarines, etc, would be a very bad idea. Even if one does not have an ethical problem with it, the politics in this dive community will never tolerate this. I do not have a problem with freediving speargunners who hunt and stalk fish in the open ocean. Spearing on the YO257 or the Sea Tiger is unacceptable and I would consider poaching. Please know that this is nothing personal against anyone. I think maybe you all have just not thought this through.....Just because it is legal does not make it right. I know many people in the dive community that would split a gut over this. trust me, please do not spear on these wrecks.

NOTE: I asked about spearing prior to any wrecks being brought up.

As far as "many people in the dive community that would split a gut over this" I can name at least (1) Course Director (2) Master Instructors (2) Instructors and a good handful of Divemasters who spear on both of those wrecks and many others. Nor have I ever seen or heard of "politics of the diving community" nor any backlash.

"I do not have a problem with freediving speargunners who hunt and stalk fish in the open ocean." Does this mean you have a problem with scuba divers spearing? What about divers, free or otherwise, on reefs? For that matter should we bow to "politics" for or answer of right or wrong?

 

[Cacia]

You have made a couple of good points.

No, I do not think it is wrong, just kind of lame.

It is true, the easier something is to kill, the less awe-inspiring it is.

Having said that, I buy my protein in little cellophane packages in a grocery store.

If you know course directors and instructors that are spearing fish on the YO257 and the Sea Tiger and are proud of it, let them join this very thought provoking and stimulating discussion! Oh, and sign their real name, not some silly little screen name incognito. (I am not implying you, you have a very large photo in your profile and obviously aren't in hiding) I would really like to know who they are. If they think this is a sustainable practice, they are not too sharp.

I hope there are no hard feelings, I just think spearing on these sites is a very bad idea. Not to sound too militant or anything.

 

[MilitantMedic]

I'm glad to see that you acquiesce that it, in fact, is not wrong but "kind of lame." Lame it may be, but I know certainly spear so I can eat. (No offense) but in some respects even shooting fish in a barrel would less lame then buying at the supermarket and you stated that.

As far as sustainability is concerned, what difference does it make if it's a wreck or a reef. I'm pretty sure the fish don't care. Spearfishing for food, anywhere, is a sustainable practice. No one is going out and spearing more than about ten fish, we are not talking about commerical fishing here. So it is no more or less than anywhere else.

Insofar as the parts of the diving community I mentioned, they are rather lame when it comes to computers....I can barely convince them to use email, much less join a forum.....and I tried too.

No hard feelings, I always enjoy a little wit and satire.

 

[Cacia]

I'm glad to see that you acquiesce that it, in fact, is not wrong but "kind of lame." Lame it may be, but I know certainly spear so I can eat. (No offense) but in some respects even shooting fish in a barrel would less lame then buying at the supermarket and you stated that.

Hey!!! You just shot me with my own bullet! That isn't fair.

Glad you aren't mad.... It is interesting to ponder. I am shooting (CAMERA) Riffe guys this next week and I will ask them to take sides. I just think there is a protocol, even if unspoken. Next time I see you I will be extracting those names of Course Directors and Master Instructors you say spear there. AND turning them over to the SCUBA huey. AND the local environmentalists which can be even tougher. That is if you don't mind.

On the Wreck of the Rhone, there was this giant 200 year-old giant grouper that lived in the back of the wreck. We would always go back there and "visit" him. He was there year after year. Well, last year, I went there (Brittish Virgins) and I said to this old diver "where is so-and-so, the giant grouper?" and he said "this guy from Puerto Rico came over and speared him for dinner, so I sunk his boat".

I think I just hijacked a thread which is poor form.

 

[pearl4diving]

Catherine - you hijacker!

MilitantMedic "As far as sustainability is concerned, what difference does it make if it's a wreck or a reef".

While we are hijacking...thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. There are 6 dive sites I know of in Kewalo Basin. These dive sites are frequented by scuba dive tour operators daily:

Yo257 & San Pedro wrecks
Sea Tiger
Turtle Canyon
Nautilus Reef
Kewalo Pipe (deep and shallow)
100 ft Hole

This does not cover the entire area on the South Shore of Oahu, but these are known areas that scuba divers (and submarines) tour to view Hawaiian underwater life. The more fish the better, the bigger the fish the better.

I suppose I would like to see those sites that are known to be frequented by scuba divers for fish viewing - be left un-fished. The ocean is plenty big, aren't there other places to find the fish?

Of course that is just my view, we are each entitled to our opinions.

It did make me sad when I read Torontonian's post mentioning the lack of fish on Oahu's West shore compared to Kona - why would you say that lack is?

Pearl's 2.5 cents

 

[Cacia]

The Scuba mafia just informed me that it is "hui".

 

[MilitantMedic]

In reply to Pearl:

"I suppose I would like to see those sites that are known to be frequented by scuba divers for fish viewing - be left un-fished. The ocean is plenty big, aren't there other places to find the fish?"

First how often do you (or anyone, most namely tourists) admire a Moano (goatfish) and say wow what a pretty goatfish! Or a Manapache? Most people look at tropical fish...not food fish. Although the Roi (Peacock Grouper) is an exception, and darned hard to get with my polespear.

Second you ask that I go somewhere else and find fish, where do you suggest I go mon ami? I only have a beat up truck and my two legs, I may only go where I can get to and where the fish are.

"The more fish the better, the bigger the fish the better." Well said, though I believe that's my point.

"...Torontonian's post mentioning the lack of fish on Oahu's West shore compared to Kona - why would you say that lack is?" Could it be the major industrial centers located on the south shore?? Could it be the major traffic from tourists? Could it be the (relative to Kona) lack of coral/bottom composition? How about the west side, which you make reference to? Look at the bottom composition vs. Kona, a good majority of west side is sloping sand...not good for fish. How many fish do you think are taken via spearing? Far less than any other cause of death. Not to mention that in my spearing I am feeding people...what are you doing with the fish???

2.5 cents?? A little pretentious? J/K


In reply to Catherine:

In the question of fairness, who do you think has it easier for spearing? Scuba Diver with a polespear or a freediver with a speargun? Fish are scared of me..I make a lot of noise. I can only get fish that are within a few feet of me. Freedivers make no noise, and typically use spearguns (as well as polespears)...which is more "sporting?"


In reply to both of you:

Let me ask you both this, if all the fish were to disappear one day who loses the greatest?? To you fish are pretty things that inhabit the oceans. To me they are a source of substance and life. Spearfishing has a long tradition here in Hawaii, camera's are only a recent intrusion. You tell me who has the greatest stake in a healthy fish population.

Bruce's Penny

 

[sea nmf]

I'm not going to debate anyone here, as I see valid points on both sides.

For my part, I like seeing ALL of the fish (Goat, uli, all of them), not just the tropical reef fish. I prefer to "visit" the fish, rather than gather them. Again, just stating my opinion based on which I prefer, not what benefits the fish or the reefs. Also, I'm not judging spearfishermen. (I don't eat commercially caught fish, by the way. I would eat a fish speared by a sport diver - don't make me go into my reasons)

 

[Wildcard]

Do you prefer the environmentaly unsafe farmed fish with the ATBs, hormones and dye added? Comm fishing can be done with near zero bycatch and maintained at sustainable levels.
I don't think I have taken my gun out more than once or twice since I got my camera. I do need to do some bug hunting soon too.