Halcyon STA-less BP / Wing Questions

[WetDane]

Hey Scubadent,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with EE - I think you are the first person I have ever heard off who had a bad experience.
If I was you - I would call them back - you have not received your stuff and that's just not right.
These guys take care of people, I have so many stories from people who had issues and just got them resolved with a smile...

Anyway - I actually think you might have made a good choice getting the old style wing - I am getting one too - the built in STA is just not gripping the tank in the same positive way that the regular one does - well, that is my experience. I have found that I just tighten the straps down REALLY hard to compensate for it.

If you don't have any luck with EE - call the folks at h2oadventuregear - I have had good experiences there, they will walk you through whatever you need and answered all my questions.

Anyway - good luck,
Big T

 

[Blargh]

fwiw, on this somewhat aged by now thread.

I picked my halcyon kit last weekend (SS plate/36lb Pioneer wing)

I had a long chat with the fellow in the shop, and according to him, the "new" Pioneers actually come in a new and newer flavour, with the "newer" ones having a *slightly" thicker built in tank holder pad that is supposed to ensure the tank clears the (supplied with the wing, btw) bolts.

Another point is that occasionally folks put a/the washer on the bolt before putting everything together - which makes the bolt ride much too high and hit the tank. The supplied bolts are supposed to be low profile enough to avoid that.


I'm due out to dear Stoney to try the kit out this Sunday, btw, so

 

[cybordolphin]

Some like the Aluminum BP it looks like.

Which is better in your opinions and why?

Thanks.

Now I wonder how one can DEMAND the VERY newest Pioneer with the thicker "built in tank holder pad", and THAT COMES WITH the wing bolts per Blargh. Might save on the cost of an additional STA!

I wonder if the price is the same for this new version....?

 

[tombiowami]

alum vs. steel is mainly a weight issue, one does not want to have more non ditchable weight than one can swim to the surface from depth in the event of a wing failure. Additional items to think about along these lines are redundant bouancy ala dry suit, lift bag, or some use 2 bladders.

At the same time ditching a lot of weight and shooting to the surface can provide unwanted results also, like your lungs filling with blood while your veins effervesce with nitrogen.

Also the wet suit, or neoprene to be more specific will lose bouancy as depth increases, where as the trilam dry suits do not.

I use a ss bp with a wetsuit that gives 6 lbs. on my back and then another 10 or so on my belt. With an alum80 that would be about 10 lbs. to swim up if needed. If I went to double alum80s I would get an alum bp.

Bottom line is to look into the ins and outs of a balanced rig and think of the possibilities that can happen in different circumstances.

Tommy

 

[WetDane]

Hey cybordolphin,

I am happy that you are looking into the options here -

Here is a math piece for you and some considerations:

Your tank (AL80) is 4 lbs positive when empty - so you need 4 lbs to keep it down.
Your wetsuit has some amount of lift along with the rest of your rig - lets assume about 20 lbs is what is needed for you to submerge when neutral.

This gives you a total or 24 lbs of weight to distribute on your rig - If you use a backplate - you get 6 lbs of, add a can light and that will be 2 lbs, you are now down to needing 16 lbs on your belt - does this make sense? Drop me a note if not and I will try to explain it better...

Now - the 24 lbs of weight needed to get you down AND the 7 lbs tat your gas in the tank weighs when full adds up to 31 lbs of total weight - THIS is what your bladder needs to be able to float... at that range you get a 36 lbs bladder and you are good.
I would get a SS backplate to take some of that weight of my hips.

So why use an aluminum plate? Well, imagine that you are diving steel double LP104's, your tanks are no long positive when empty, they are 2 lbs negative, you may hav stages with you and the total amount of weight you need to submerge may be very small - at this point - having the weight on your back is not a benefit - and remember that you do want some weight to dump on the surface if you get in trouble.

As far as the wings go - I have one - I do not know if it is the newest one - but I recommend that you get an STA anyway - I just like the positive feel of that - but it could be me - the bolt kit should not be an issue as long as you don't put the washers on the wrong end...
Call h2oadventuregear and ask them - they will be able to tell you precisely what it is and what you need.

Cheers,
Big T

 

[cybordolphin]

Thanks WetDane..

I was just thinking about not having much weight to dump if I went with a heavier SS BP. Not sure I like the idea of relying so much on my wings to get, (and keep) me to/on the top.

Will think over the options.

I appreciate all the input. It helps a lot.

 

[WetDane]

cybordolphin,
No problem -
Keep in mind that although you are relying on the wing to keep you topside - all you need is to keep your head out of the water - all BC's will do this in some form or other - you want to get your wing the right size for this so you don't swim around with the potential for blowing up a huge volume of air that will send you up like a submarine surfacing - that's not a good ting and it is really just added drag in the water...

If you look at the math - you know you can float the rig - that's what you need - if you drop a couple of lbs you will float better...
I have never met anyone - who dropped his/her weights below to get up, if you get your rig setup poperly, you will be able to swim it up - in particular as long as you are diving a single AL...

If anything - I would say - very smart to do some research - but don't get too tangled in it either - go diving...
If you really want to get good - take the GUE Fundamentals class when offered in your area - there is no C-card involved, but you get s very good dose of "how to dive"

Cheers,
Big T

 

[ninja]

Just a thought there guys. Was wondering why everyone is getting their dive gear through the mail? I'm for getting a good price as same as the next guy but shouldn't you be supporting your local dive shop rather than trying to save a few bucks?? I don't mean to preach but if you don't shop where you live (unless the prices are that brutal) how will you get air, maintenance and other gear or advice?? Just thought you should maybey think about this when buying stuff!! If we don't support locally or by the state or province our local dive shops will close down.;-0 . So if you are buying a backplate and harness or regulator or on give your lds a chance they can often have a better price and even provide you with warranty and repair work.

UNLESS EVERYONE TRAVELLS AND DOESN'T DIVE LOCALLY, WHO NEEDS A DIVE SHOP THAN!!!!

P.S. You don't have to order from extreme exposure directly that is what your local Halcyon dealer is for.

 

[JoelW]

Good point Ninja. My nearest Halcyon dealer is in Kansas City, Missouri. I live in Minneapolis so I am looking at a 476 mile drive to get my nearest Halcyon lds. It's doable, but $10 in shipping seems so much more reasonable. In short, Halcyon ain't everywhere. In fact, it is hardly anywhere. some of that is their own fault. I talked to the shop where I have been spending a lot of money lately to see if they could get in Halcyon stuff. He called and was told that to do it his minimum order would have to be in the $3000 range. A little bit much for a market that isn't going to buy that much in a short time. The store could probably move that much in time, but it was too large an investment for one confirmed customer. So, I ended up buying a wing mail order out of Florida. The store understood.

JoelW

 

[ninja]

Good point JoelW,

In an instance like that I would agree with you. Sometimes i forget that we are fairly technical in Onatario so we have access to halcyon and diverite in more areas. I don't have a problem with that and to be quite honest withyou don't blame ya for ordering it!! .

But guys if ya have a good shop near home try and take care of them!! Good luck on your future gear purchases..