Halcyon files for "DIR" Registered Trademark

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

please put coke alerts up when you get into these mindless pi$$ing contests....you have to stop my sides are hurting from laughing so much.....the educational value of this board has gone down dramatically but boy the entertainment value and laughs is rising:):)
 
That was fantastic! I'm not a tech diver and I haven't even been diving much for several years, but am coming back to the sport. What I like about DIR is the thought provoking it creates. Think about how your gear performs in your diving environment and get as "back to basics" as you can. Practice basic skills. Practice emergency procedures. Always be aware of your buddy. That's what DIR is to me, or rather that's what exposure to DIR here has caused me to think about and appreciate.

I liked your article because it acknowledged that a Scubapro Air2 could be "DIR" (their definition, not necessarily GUE's or JJ's or GI3's) because it's a) always in the same place, b) easy to put into use, and c) doesn't violate the "back to basics" keep it streamlined kind of thinking. I recently put a long hose on my primary and installed an Air2 on my BC inflator hose because posts here made me think about OOA emergencies and made me realize that the quickest, surest thing to do in an OOA emergency is give my buddy the bubbly thing in my mouth NOW because after that 30 ft swim that's probably what he frantically wants right then. I don't give a "pickled rat's butt" (I LOVE that phrase, thanks to that poster!! :) ) if somebody thinks I should have a bungeed octo around my neck for the shallow, clear vis, warm water diving I normally do instead of my Air2. And if they do, well, I'm grateful to them for getting me to get a long hose on my primary, start practicing passing that to the OOA diver, and getting my octo out of my BC pocket. It's all good. I'm not that insecure that I give a shoot how they feel about my Air2. I'm probably a better dive buddy because they've stimulated my thinking.

I think the DIR folks have done all divers a great service by getting us to think about our diving practices. I wish we could all quit worrying about whose ox is getting gored. All the discussion about technique and what equipment works best in various situations is very valuable for all divers. It seems a shame to lose sight of all this good thinking and discussion because we consider Halcyon getting a little mileage out of some slogan some kind of major personal affront.

That link had what I think is a great definition of DIR, even if they don't have it trademarked.

In Summary, The IANTD Training Philosophy Is One That:

-Develops confidence.
-Produces thinking divers.
-Provides knowledge of the type dive being trained for.
-Develops stress recognition and management which emphasizes problem solving.
-Helps develop and evaluate a good attitude for safer diving.
-Develops an open mind to inquire about new environments.
-Makes one aware of alternatives in dive style and configuration due to varying environments.
-Educates one to be selective in whom they choose as dive partners
-Develops a self-sufficient, non-dependent diver. This is the diver who makes a good buddy as he / she is confident and capable of assisting a buddy in emergency situations.
-Educates the diver to the fact that formal training is a foundation and the real training is done by oneself evolving from the formal setting to real life experiences. Training is a life long experience.


Wow! They've said a mouthful! As long as there are folks around to write that kind of stuff, Halcyon trademarking DIR won't be the end of diving as we know it. Trust me on this. :wink:
 
Okay kids, pay attention.

People are spouting off a lot of nonsense in this thread about Halcyon "owning" and "controlling" DIR because of its registration of a trademark for the term. Posters have used the words "patent", "copyright" and "trademark" in their comments in ways which show that they have no idea what they are talking about. I doubt that it will make a difference to the opinions of the bash-DIR-at-every-turn zealots, but if they want to hyperventilate about this, they ought to have a clue what a trademark is, and what it isn't. So here is a very short lesson in intellectual property law. I will skip the hard parts, and if you want to know more, you can pay me my hourly rate and I'll explain it in detail for you.

TRADEMARKS: A trademark is a word, phrase or image, alone or in combination, which identifies the SOURCE of a particular GOOD or SERVICE.

The idea of a legally protectable trademark arose in the Middle Ages, when craftsmen stamped unique marks on their wares to show who made it. Some people's work was better than others' and as their reputations spread, a skilled maker's mark on a particular widget made that widget more valuable than a widget from an inferior maker. Of course people then were just as venal as people now, so the makers of crummy widgets sometimes faked the marks of their more skilled competitors to try and fetch a higher price for their goods. The law of trademarks arose as a way of protecting the public and the holders of valuable marks from infringement.

Nowadays, you have trademark rights in a word or phrase or image that is associated in the market with your product. If the market understands that a particular word, phrase or image shows that the item in question comes from you, you can prevent your competitors from using the same word or phrase or image to sell their stuff. If you want, you can attempt to register your word, phrase or image with the federal government. The feds investigate your claim that you are using your mark in a particular area of commerce, and that your mark has some "secondary meaning" in the market- that people associate the mark with you and your product or service. If they agrre that you've met all the rules, they register your mark. It is up to you to stop anyone else from using your mark inappropriately.

An example of a trademark is the phrase "Pizza, Pizza". This is a registered trademark of Little Caesars. Does this mean that Little Caesars owns the idea of pizza, or the recipe for pizza, or even the idea of selling two pizzas for one price? Of course not. It just means that Little Caesars claims the right to prevent any other pizza sellers from using the phrase "Pizza, Pizza" in selling their pizza, because that phrase is associated in the minds of pizza buyers with Little Caesars and nobody else. If a competitor wants to challenge the claim that "Pizza, Pizza" is associated in the minds of pizza buyers with Little Caesars, they can. If they win, the claimed trademark is invalid.

Federal trademark registrations have to be renewed from time to time, but trademarks can last indefintely. As long as the mark is associated uniquely with a particular source, it is still a valid and protectable right. Trademark rights can be lost, however, if the trademark becomes a generic designation for a particlar item. "Asprin" was once a trademark owned by Bayer, but is now the generic description of a particular chemical composition.

PATENTS: A patent is a limited grant by the federal government of a monopoly in a particular INVENTION of some useful object, process or design. You cannot get a patent in anything unless the thing you are trying to patent is new, and is not an obvious extension of existing knowledge. When you apply for a patent you have to fully disclose everything about how your patent works. Once you get a patent, other people cannot use or sell your invention without your permission, until the patent expires. To get your permission they have to pay royalties to you. After the patent expires, everyone can use your patent. The period of exclusive use is the reward the government offers inventors for the full disclosure of their inventions, and the eventual right of everyone to someday use this new and useful thing for free.

Patents are useful to protect designs and processes that are easily reverse-engineered, assuming all the underlying requirements for patentability are met.

Examples of patented things whose patent terms have expired are barbed wire, egg cartons, aerosol shaving cream, and the pour spouts on cardboard milk containers. While the patent terms were running, only the inventors could make money on these things. Then the patents expired, and everyone could copy the designs for free.

COPYRIGHTS: A copyright protects the particular EXPRESSION of an idea in certain media. A creative work cannot be copied and used in commerce without the permission of the owner of the copyright. Works are protected under federal copyright law for defined time periods which are tied to the lifetime of the creator of the work.

A word or phrase in general use cannot be copyrighted. There also must be some element of creativity in the work, even if minimal. The idea behind copyright is to prevent plaigarism - passing off someone else's work as your own. The ideas expressed in a work are not protected by copyright, only the expression of the ideas is protected.

Authors of creative works do not want their material copied, sold or used without their permission. A copyright notice (A "c" in a circle) tells the world that the author claims a copyright in the work in question. The author may also register the work with the federal government, which basically consists of sending a copy of the work to be filed away as proof of priority in the event of a later dispute.

Copyright prevents actual copying. Unlike a patent, if an accused infringer shows that he or she created the accused work independently, then there is no infringement.

Now kids, lets apply these brief lessons to the matter at issue.

1. - Halcyon is not attempting to PATENT the term DIR.

Halcyon is not claiming that it invented DIR. DIR methods and practices generally are not patentable, because they are not new. They have been in use and disclosed in the diving community and to the extent they were ever patentable, they no longer are.

2. - Halcyon is not attempting to COPYRIGHT the term DIR.

The term itself is not copyrightable as a matter of law. Creative works describing DIR are copyrightable, but all that means is that you can't plagiarize the work. The underlying IDEAS of DIR are in the public domain and can be discussed and written about by anyone.

3. - Halcyon is attempting to get a federal TRADEMARK registration for the term DIR. Halcyon already has a common law claim to a trademark in the terms DIR and Doing It Right because it has been using them for some time to identify its goods. Note that DIR has been used by Halcyon on its goods for years, without any complaint by any of the screamers on this board. That shows that the marketplace does in fact associate the term DIR with Halcyon.

Halcyon is claiming in its federal registration that the term DIR is associated in the marketplace with goods from Halcyon. I suspect that the federal trademark examiner will agree with this assertion and accept Halcyon's trademark registration as requested, perhaps with some limitations, if that has not happened already.

Whether or not the federal trademark is issued, Halcyon's right to prevent others from using the term DIR will be limited to manufacturing and selling scuba equipment. If Halcyon is found to have a trademark in the term DIR, Halcyon will be able to prevent other manufacturers and sellers of scuba equipment from using the term DIR to sell their goods in competition with Halcyon.

Halcyon's existing and prospective trademark rights will not prevent anyone from talking about the protocols and procedures that make up DIR diving.



You may now return to your regularly scheduled ranting.
 
I don't see what all the controversy is about. JJ and his company copyright the slogan "Doing It Right"; so what. This slogan is boldly displayed on most of their gear and has been for a long time. This is about marketing and brand recognition. A lot of other companies are trying to latch onto the DIR bandwagon by introducing products"similiar" to Halcyon's offerings. Halcyon is trademarking "Doing It Right" to make a needed distinction between their products and those of competitors. If I were JJ, I would not want my products compared to the companies who now offer "DIR Gear".

You do NOT have to own Halcyon gear to take GUE's classes. When I took the DIR-F class, about 3 people, including myself, were not using Halcyon gear at the time. I had not yet received my Exploror doubles wing and was using an old ScubaPro wing. None of the Instructors said a thing.

People were DIR long before Halcyon came about.

Halcyon makes quality equiptment that actually does what it is supposed to do, it makes sense that they would trademark the slogan "Doing It Right".

I can imagine OMS coming out with a 200lbs lift double wing with bungees and "DIR" plastered all over it. Halcyon needs to protect it's trademark or the marketplace will become flooded with a bunch of random wanna-be gear.
 
roakey once bubbled...

Are you somehow implying that a marketing slogan is on par with poking at the dead? Jeez, the anti-DIR crowd is really reaching on this one...

Why aren't all the tracks up in arms over the SAFER barrier implying that all their walls are dangerous?

Because it's just a marketing name. Grow up and get over it.

Roak

Are you referring to the anti-private ownership of the name or the anti-safe diving crowd. I'm a big proponent of the DIR philosophy of diving, and I have long been impressed with JJ's attitude, demeanour and accomplishments. I own a Halcyon wing and a few other odds and ends of Halcyon gear. Which anti-DIR crowd does this consign me to?

Are you really labouring under the delusion that DIR has been in the past only a marketing name? I want to be there when you throw that little bit of nonsense at someone like George Irvine and the WKPP gang. You haven't really looked past the sturm and drang in a few newsgroups and forums then. It's the move to turn it into a marketing name that goes against the grain.

As for growing up, I'm mature enough to try to understand what I'm defending or decrying before I run my mouth.

There's nothing to get over. This is a dive forum and we're discussing a dive-related issue.

If I'm out of order, tell me. I'll shut up. 8)

JohnF
 
JohnCollins once bubbled...
That was fantastic! I'm not a tech diver and I haven't even been diving much for several years, but am coming back to the sport. What I like about DIR is the thought provoking it creates. Think about how your gear performs in your diving environment and get as "back to basics" as you can. Practice basic skills. Practice emergency procedures. Always be aware of your buddy. That's what DIR is to me, or rather that's what exposure to DIR here has caused me to think about and appreciate.

It's good that you have a positive attitude, unlike others here. I've been neck deep in the debate since maybe 98, in more ways than I can elaborate here, and I'm a confirmed neutral. I'm a kinda smart guy, and I hang out with guys a lot smarter than me, and I hate seeing guys argue this matter from a position based on a foundation of ignorance and petulance. When the Pro-DIR nasties started up, It made sense to me to Know-thine-enemy, and I studied all aspects of DIR. It's knowing little thing like this gem, or what George says about long hose in OW, that make me conversant. I also had right-time-right-place advantages, meeting some DIR top dogs, and speaking frankly with them. Also an LDS that's GUE/DIR/Cave, so I get the information of example. Of course, like most folks, I found DIR had a lot to offer, even if I wasn't interested in the full package. So DIR has positively enhanced my diving, and I've tried what parts were available to me, and set the rest aside, not discarded, but for future consideration as my diving advances. I'll never come close to being fully DIR, because I use a computer, solo dive, and choose gear outside their envelope. My wing choice alone makes DIR zealots hebetate.

JohnCollins once bubbled...
I liked your article because it acknowledged that a Scubapro Air2 could be "DIR" (their definition, not necessarily GUE's or JJ's or GI3's) because it's a)

John, see, herein lies the problem. Not that I agree or disagree with IANTD (they're my agency of choice), but this sets the precedence of bastardization of DIR to any relatively authoritative agency. You have to mediate the argument dispassionately. IANTD has a definition that you find favorable, and adopt it in the name of DIR, and it simply isn't (by the convetional definition). And IMHO, that's the reason JJ is seeking to trademark.

DIR will be meaningless if it means whatever anyone wants it to.
 
I think I know why the DIR debate generates such strong feelings, based on reading the book and reading the ongoing debate here.

The DIR system is actually well thought out and is pretty good, but it is presented that if you buy into it 90%, you aren't DIR, and it does not allow for experimenting with your equipment.

Personally, I like experimenting with different gear. Some of what I try I like and other stuff doesn't make a second dive. Am I going to quit fiddling with my gear configuration just because some guy, who is a better diver than I am, writes a book about what he thinks is the best gear configuaration?

Nope. I am going to keep trying new things, like my Air2, and I am going to continue to reject ideas that strike me as sort of silly, like wrapping a bungee cord or a regulator hose around my neck.

I think a lot of divers feel this way. I am going with what works for me. That may mean gear from any manufacturer, . . .uh, who isn't French!

So I guess this means I have rejected DIR by their own definitions. However, I did enjoy the book, and freely acknowledge that these guys are far better at diving than I'll ever be.

This puts me in a quandry. I liked the book and recommend it to anyone who has not read it, but I have rejected the idea that there is only one way to dive, which puts me at odds with one of the main points in the book. That creates an internal conflict.

BTW: Halcyon make a really nice safety sausage. It is much nicer than the cheesy things you see everywhere else! Can I keep the safety sausage while doing it wrong? :)
 
As I understand it GUE, and halcyon are both some of JJ's entities.

For me, I would have no problem if GUE applied for the DIR (notice the caps) trademark since they are by-and-large the ones who have marketed it and made it a succesfull concept.

The difference comes when a company that markets to GUE trained divers, Halcyon, tries to trademark the term.

GUE is the proponent of the DIR philosophy, and any gear that conforms to the PHILOSOPHY(not Brand) should be given permission to use the GUE approved DIR mark. If Halcyon has exclusive use of this mark, then people will be let to believe that the only way they can conform to the philosophy is to by a certain brand of gear.



I would also add that a lot of Halcyon equipment could be used in a very NON-DIR :eek:

Yet another reason why the DIR trademark would be more applicable to the training in the DIR philosophy than the brand of a gear.


I think JJ made a business decision to benefit his bottom line (within his rights). The problem is that divers seem to be the type that don't really appreciate business decisions based on marketing benefits. There are some out there thought that have subscribed to the DIR approach so much that they can't help but try every minute to get farther up JJ's a** so they can feel better about themselves....
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom