Halcyon files for "DIR" Registered Trademark

[sharpenu]

Nothing seems to generate as much discussion on this board as the "DIR" debate. What usually starts as one person making a statement that is anti-DIR is inevitably taken as a personal attack and brings forth an immediate barrage of personal attacks. That, more than anything else, is what pushes so many of us inthe diving community away from DIR. These "strawman" arguements and personal attacks completely obscure a possibly better system of diving behind a veil of mistrust and hard feelings.

It seems to those of us who have been around, that the DIR crowd has elevated the system into a religion of sorts. Question this religion at your own peril, or be labeled a heretic.

There are several questions I have, and have always had about DIR. However, the fighting and arguing have pushed me away from asking. They even were a prime reason for my nearly year long absence from this board.

The fact remains that, whether true or not, when the Director of a training agency that writes gear specs is also a senior officer in the company that makes the gear, it gives the appearance that the training method is a marketing gimmick.

That is how we get the equipment we want in Govt service as well. If we want brand "X" to win the bidding process, we write the bid spec to make sure that 1 manufacturer comes out ahead. It certainly appears to be the case here, whether it actually is or not.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Custer,

As usual, you have made some excellent points.
Would you agree that Halcyon will further their edge in the market by trademarking "DIR"?

Spectre,

"If you want to follow DIR, you should understand the reasons behind the approved equipment, and use that understanding to choose your equipment."

I, of course, do understand "the reasons behind the approved equipment". But I worry that other companies will be less motivated to produce gear that meets DIR specs if they can't advertise their gear as "DIR compliant". End result...less gear choices for me.

"... By giving GUE some control over DIR labelling, you can prevent some company by claiming something is "DIR complient" when it's not. "

Well...GUE won't be controlling DIR labeling. It will be Halcyon.

Roger,

I think that there will be some changes. As it is now, there is a trend for companies other than Halcyon to make gear that meets DIR specs. I suspect that this might dwindle if the major competitor can dictate what is and isn't "DIR".

It would be a different deal if a training agency - with no ties to Halcyon or any other manufacturer - had control over the "DIR" label. Then all manufacturers would be playing on an even field.

SA

 

[Don Burke]

GQMedic once bubbled...
Don Burke considered my post the "Rantings of a madman" well, I can live with that too. I'm sure in many circles, I probably even LOOK like a madman!

Actually, that isn't what I said.

GQMedic once bubbled...
Seriously,

In essence, the DIR patent which will resort to the use of equipment configs made by other than Halcyon will not be DIR. (Doing it right) So, in essence, using a dive-rite with tec wings will either be "DIW" (Doing It Wrong) or a Patent or copywrite infringement.

That's where the misunderstanding is coming from. Registering a trademark is much different than patenting something.

GQMedic once bubbled...
Of course, the Halcyon rig owning DIR crowd are crowing BRAVO! about this, there's a big surprise.

I haven't seen any crowing about this.

GQMedic once bubbled...
Am I boycotting DIR or GUE? Well, that would be pointless.

That was _precisely_ what you stated in your first message in this thread.

GQMedic once bubbled...
I think I'll stick with my split fins, my NON Halcyon equipment, etc and be more than happy to be DIMW (Doing It My Way).

Back to the more recent message:

GQMedic once bubbled...
Ya know, maybe I will go ahead and take the DIR-F class, if nothing else, I'll be incorporating those diciplens into my own dive style. But to be forced to use Halcyon to be DIR or to take the class (I'm presuming GUE will insist on Halcyon EVERYTHING), that's a crock!

Don't invest any money in that theory. The registration of the trademark isn't a patent.

I attempted (crappy viz so we called it) a dive with a couple of people Saturday and as soon as they saw my Halcyon backplate and wing, they apparently half-expected me to turn into Charles Manson on them. I wasn't active on this board for the big DIR wars and I'd rather not rekindle them.

JJ isn't where the DIR commandos are coming from. It appears to be coming from George Irvine III's list appearance (as distinguished from George in one-on-one email or in person) and some zealots who have found an excuse to be self-righteous. They don't represent JJ or GUE and they don't represent me.

I've never taken a GUE course, although I am a member of GUE. I dive very closely to DIR. I would be glad to give my personal opinions on any diving subject, but I'm not a spokesman for anyone but myself.

This thread seems to be hanging on a misunderstanding of what the documents filed by Halcyon mean. I've looked the information over and it doesn't match what some are presenting here.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

JohnCollins once bubbled...


I can't get over this. Halcyon equipment is no more DIR than Dive Rite's or OMS's or Oxycheq's -- it's just a phrase. Their trademarking the phrase has nothing to do with the variety of gear available to you.

It IS just a phrase. But now it will be a trademarked phrase. If I was a wing manufacturer and I decided to make a wing that met DIR specs so that I could sell it to folks that were looking for such a thing, then I would want to be able to advertise it as DIR compliant. I might not want to sew a DIR patch on it but I would still want customers to know that it meets DIR specs. If my major competitor was the only company that could advertise a wing as DIR compliant then I am at a disadvantage.

What we need here is "The International Council on Doing It Right"! An impartial body that would determine if a product deserves the DIR stamp of approval.


"I'm giving up on this thread. Makes my hair hurt!"

Dude, we're just talkin'. No reason to get bummed.

Roger,

I realize that it is just a marketing slogan and I'm not upset that Halcyon is trademarking "DIR'. But DIR stands for a lot and I think that it's a shame that Halcyon will now own it.

SA

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Don, you might be right.

I really don't know all of the implications of trademarking something.

Can you tell me this...

If Halcyon trademarks "DIR", can OMS advertise on their web site that their new manifold meets DIR specs?

SA

 

[Don Burke]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
Don, you might be right.

I really don't know all of the implications of trademarking something.

Can you tell me this...

If Halcyon trademarks "DIR", can OMS advertise on their web site that their new manifold meets DIR specs?

SA

Steve,

I'm not an attorney or judge and I don't play one on the web.

However:

My Nokia cellphone has a battery made by someone else who advertised that it would fit.

My Sony camcorder has a battery made by someone else who marked the package that it would fit.

Many of the parts on my Chevrolet truck were made by someone else who said they would fit.

My "Mr Coffee" coffeemaker uses filters made by someone else who said they would fit

Those are just the things I have touched today. I'm sure we could come up with more examples.

They seem to have handled the problem somehow.

I would look for something like "GUE 2003 compliant" to become the term other companies would use, although "DIR compliant" may indeed be legal.

This is all much ado about nothing.

 

[roakey]

sharpenu once bubbled...
That, more than anything else, is what pushes so many of us inthe diving community away from DIR.

So rather than make a rational choice based on information, you close your eyes to the information because someone who's beaten up on a regular basis may have possibly offended you while defending himself. That's rich. And so very typical.

sharpenu once bubbled...
There are several questions I have, and have always had about DIR. However, the fighting and arguing have pushed me away from asking.

Ask away. You stay civil and we stay civil. You take potshots, don't expect us to take it laying down. Thems the rules, take it or leave it. Note that these arguments come from the typical, general anti-DIR bashing that many delight in dishing out, not any specific question. Actual DIR questions are typically dealt with tersely, quickly and efficiently. Because there's a reason for everything we do.

Just don't tell the anti-DIR bashers that, they lothe to actually learn something, bashing's much more fun for them than learning to dive well.

Roak

 

[Custer]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
Custer,

As usual, you have made some excellent points.
Would you agree that Halcyon will further their edge in the market by trademarking "DIR"?

I think that they might protect the market, which may further their edge (but not only theirs). Subtle difference.

But until they try to manipulate what DIR is (and DIR comes from WKPP), or attempt to patent proprietary things like the spool or the Scout lite, I think that they're just leveling the field, or maybe refereeing the game.

They're sure not gonna require their branded gear for their classes,

Because no one will attend their classes. It would be self limiting.

Their product line is fairly generic, and there is an extensive knock off market that they don't seem to care about.

As long as George Irvine keeps taking occaisional shots at their product line, I think we're all safe.:wacko:

 

[roakey]

JohnF once bubbled...
Go down to Nascar country, stand in front of a busy roadhouse on Saturday night, and shout at the top of your lungs "3 IS JUST A NUMBER". See how easygoing some folks are about their icons.

Are you somehow implying that a marketing slogan is on par with poking at the dead? Jeez, the anti-DIR crowd is really reaching on this one...

Why aren't all the tracks up in arms over the SAFER barrier implying that all their walls are dangerous?

Because it's just a marketing name. Grow up and get over it.

Roak

 

[Custer]

sharpenu once bubbled...
Nothing seems to generate as much discussion on this board as the "DIR" debate. What usually starts as one person making a statement that is anti-DIR is inevitably taken as a personal attack and brings forth an immediate barrage of personal attacks.

It seems to those of us who have been around, that the DIR crowd has elevated the system into a religion of sorts. Question this religion at your own peril, or be labeled a heretic.

There are several questions I have, and have always had about DIR. However, the fighting and arguing have pushed me away from asking. They even were a prime reason for my nearly year long absence from this board.

DIR (not GUE or Halcyon per say) puts the information out, widely disseminated, and for free. DIR (GI3) does not give a pickled rat's butt if you take advantage of it.

sharpenu once bubbled...
The fact remains that, whether true or not, when the Director of a training agency that writes gear specs is also a senior officer in the company that makes the gear, it gives the appearance that the training method is a marketing gimmick.

He doesn't write the gear specs, and his company doesn't make the only compatible gear.

It's this disinformation that arouses the ire of the pro-DIR crowd.

Still waiting on the aforementioned logic.