Halcyon files for "DIR" Registered Trademark

[wb416]

GQMedic once bubbled...


Ya know, maybe I will go ahead and take the DIR-F class, if nothing else, I'll be incorporating those diciplens into my own dive style. But to be forced to use Halcyon to be DIR or to take the class (I'm presuming GUE will insist on Halcyon EVERYTHING), that's a crock!

There's a difference between having gear from a mfg that is suitable for use in a DIR configuration, and gear that can be advertised as DIR. It's called marketing.

Obviously, certain DUI TLS suits will be an acceptable part of the DIR configuration for the foreseeable future, but they won't be able to advertise them as DIR. Likewise Pepsi can't call their soda "The Real Thing" since Coke has that marketing line.

Quit majoring on the minor and move on to what's important... or continue practicing for your local community theatre with more displays of melodramatics...

 

[Custer]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
Custer is back. Perhaps he can explain. He's much better with words than I. SA

I wouldn't say that at all. I'm well versed in this venue, though. :mean:

John:

"I thought the IANDT article was good because it set forth some basic principles that DIR sort of aims at. Anyway, the DIR folks have done great things for diving, I believe, and I'm all for Halcyon trademarking the term, and JJ keeping it "pure" from any and all folks who might taint it by sticking the label on an Air2--heaven forfend! I don't covet the DIR label and I don't have a dog in the fight. But I really appreciate the DIR folks' ideas and wish others could, too, and stop being so paranoid about them.

Anyway, just wanted to say I have no desire to dilute the DIR definition or turn it into an "anything goes" name. I just really liked that IANTD article. . .like I enjoyed the DIR Fundamentals book. I apologize if I muddied the waters a bit with my comment, it wasn't my intention at all."

He's got it.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Give us a little history on the George Irvine/Tom Mount thing!

SA

 

[GQMedic]

That's possible. We'll see, I am still watching to see what happens and evaluating along the way.

Waterlover once bubbled...



I'll bet your presumption is incorrect........

 

[GQMedic]

Well, excellent, I am glad to know that you don't have to OWN Halcyon's stuff to be DIR...

As far as the differnce between patent or copywrite, who cares. You obviously understood what I was saying.

jonnythan once bubbled...


You don't need to own a single piece of Halcyon gear to take and pass the class.

A Koplin backplate, an Oxycheq wing, 7 foot primary/22-24" backup, spg on a short hose clipped to your side, whatever exposure protection you want, a mask, and some stiff fins like Jets or Quattros. That's all the equipment you need. Your DIRF instructor won't give a hoot. I don't have the DIRF book either, but I hear JJ goes to great lengths not to say "brand XX is the DIR xx" and instead points out features you want and features you don't want in each piece of gear.

Halcyon doesn't make *anything* that you can't find elsewhere.. except maybe the reels. I hear they're pretty darn nifty, but I've never even seen one.

Oh, BTW, there's one hell of a big difference between a PATENT and a TRADEMARK. Look them up.

 

[GQMedic]

John,

I appreciate your reply and it does help me better understand things. Yes, I'll still influence my decisions based upon how I feel about things, and yes, I should hav been more clear, (and then some) about patent and copywrite, I didn't take the time to, so I've been flamed over it. That doesn't bother me too much, it's a an apples and oranges thing, really.

I don't mine a little "nose tweaking" either, hey, sometimes you got to stick it out to get somewhere. You throw the dice and take what comes up. You were pretty decent in your post.

I think I'll stay in this thread though, it's really the only way to get a better picture of things, of course, to tweak a few noses at the same time as I notice a few venomous replies awaiting me, which I will get to them in the order they are read.

 

[Custer]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...


John, this article has nothing to do with "DIR". There are those that would say that Tom Mount represents everything that isn't DIR and that there is so much in this article that isn't DIR that it is laughable. Some would say that it is obvious that Mount has stolen and perverted the term DIR for his own gain. The fact that you have accepted it as an authentic description of DIR only makes Custer's point so wonderfully clear.
SA

One thing I spaced on, and this is my opinion, is why DIR is what it is.

Why it's a "my way or the highway" thing, which is what irks people most.

Anyone here that doesn't know what Wakulla is, should take a moment to check it out.

Thee last word on DIR:

http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/newgeorge.html


Ole King George, whom I personally abhor, has a massive responsibility, and the lives of the entire support team in his hands (100 guys give or take, IIRC). The dives they do brook no room for error, which is why strict adherance to DIR is so critical. George is the ultimate bag holder, and for many reasons, none the least of which is the credibility hit the entire concept will take if there's ever a death, George has come up with a system that he believes is the most succinct.

I applaud that. It's also why "true" DIR has no room for varience.

After this DIR thing is defined, THEN it becomes a training policy for an agency, GUE. See, GUE doesn't have squat to do with what DIR is. If George decided tomorrow that DIR should be Mares Hubs and Force fins, that's what it would be, regardless of GUE.

Halcyon just makes compliant gear.

Here's George on long hose in open water:

> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Trey" <trey@netdor.com>
> > > > To: <mjblackmd@yahoo.com>
> > > > Cc: "techdiver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 3:26 AM
> > > > Subject: mike
> > > >
> > > > > Your post:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Black wrote:
> > > > > >As for trying DIR, I did, once. After tripping over the long hose
> > > > > >on land, reaching for shoulder-mounted dive lights and not being
> > > > > >able to re-stow them, feeling the wobble of a Halcyon single tank
> > > > > >backplate, not being able to read the hip-mounted pressure gauge,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no reason to use a long hose with an open water rig. There
> > > > > is no reason to use the backup lights. You unclip the pressure gauge to
> > > > > read it. Obviously the Halcyon plate was not properly assembled or
> > > > > attached to the tank properly - they don't wobble if properly attached.


Why the ambiguity? Cause George doesn't care if you're DIR, or what you do in open water.

If you wanna know what Cave DIR is, George could cite it front and back.

But anyway, that's what DIR originates as. A system for doing 18,000 ft cave penetrations, and why if you ain't DIR, you ain't.

 

[jonnythan]

Custer once bubbled...
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Trey" <trey@netdor.com>
> > > > To: <mjblackmd@yahoo.com>
> > > > Cc: "techdiver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 3:26 AM
> > > > Subject: mike
> > > >
> > > > > Your post:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Black wrote:
> > > > > >As for trying DIR, I did, once. After tripping over the long hose
> > > > > >on land, reaching for shoulder-mounted dive lights and not being
> > > > > >able to re-stow them, feeling the wobble of a Halcyon single tank
> > > > > >backplate, not being able to read the hip-mounted pressure gauge,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no reason to use a long hose with an open water rig.

Later in the same post by GI:

> > > This singleness of rig not only saves the diver a ton of money , it
> > > saves him from silly gear and having to use different gear for different
> > > dives and levels of diving - not in the best interest of safety.

WTF? He says use the same gear for all diving, then says to use a short hose in OW?

 

[Cave Diver]

scywin once bubbled...
Nope. I am going to keep trying new things, like my Air2, and I am going to continue to reject ideas that strike me as sort of silly, like wrapping a bungee cord or a regulator hose around my neck.

The thing that strikes me funny about this statement is that you are going to keep trying new things, like your Air2, but you are going to reject an idea simply because it strikes you as silly.

Why not try it just like the Air2. I am willing to bet that you can find much more solid reasons to use the long hose/bungied backup than you can for the Air2 if you give them both an equal shake.

And if you try it, and it doesnt work out for you, at least you will now have an informed reason of why a specific choice is better for you, and that reasoning may have a positive impact on future choices.

 

[JohnF]

jonnythan once bubbled...


Later in the same post by GI:



WTF? He says use the same gear for all diving, then says to use a short hose in OW?

Might he have been saying that if you don't dive overheads, you don't need the long hose and a pair of backup lites? He's simply saying that it's more efficient and cost-effective to dive one setup only, whether it's a cave setup which is the most versatile, or an OW rec setup if you only dive OW rec style.

JohnF