Halcyon files for "DIR" Registered Trademark

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Rick Murchison once bubbled...
It's a curious thing...
On the one hand, for the most part those who object to a trademark of "doing it right" being granted Halcyon aren't objecting to Halcyon or GUE or their diving philosophy, but rather to the mess such a trademark will create - lawsuits every time some other manufacturer or agency has the temerity to claim they're "doing it right" too... at the discretion, of course, of Halcyon's attorneys.
....

Rick, you own a business. Wouldn't you be unhappy if one of your competitors started using using a name that was the same as yours? How about if a competitor used a term or slogan that you use in your business, that your customers associate with you?

Names and words that are understood to designate a certain source for goods and services are trademarks, i.e. a "mark" used in "trade" that identifies the source. Halcyon has ALREADY, for a long time, used "DIR" and "Doing It Right" as distinguishing marks to designate its goods. In its trademark application, it is claiming that it has generated enough recognition in the scuba marketplace that those marks are associated wth Halcyon.

Like any trademark owner, Halcyon has the right to prevent its competitors from using its marks in such a way as to create a possibility of confusion in the marketplace as to the origin of competing goods or services. You can't start a dive equipment company and call it Halcyon, because Halcyon owns the trademark "Halcyon" in the scuba industry. And Halcyon is claiming that you can't sell scuba equipment and use the terms DIR or Doing It Right, because those terms are trademarks associated with Halcyon for scuba equipment and services.

Halcyon's competitors can say whatever they want about their gear, as long as they don't use the terms DIR or Doing It Right as a designation for their goods or services.

If Halcyon wants to keep its rights in the marks DIR and Doing It Right, it will have to sue infringers. If Halcyon lets others use these terms to describe their competing goods, Halcyon runs the risk of losing whatever rights it may have in those marks.

In the first place, "doing it right" is a phrase so frequently and commonly used, and with such broad common application I doubt the trademark will be granted.

Here you have to understand that rights in marks are limited to particular areas of commerce. Halcyon only claims a trademark in "Doing It Right" in specific areas of scuba equipment and education. The mark may have other connotations in other areas of commerce. In fact, there are other trademark registrations for "Doing It Right" and "DIR" and similar words in different types of commerce. My guess is that Halcyon will not have much trouble registering these marks for its business.

Even in diving specifically IANTD has used the term officially in a 1997 paper on its own "Doing it Right" philosophy, ...

If you check into this, I think you will agree that this IANTD article was an attempt by Tom Mount to pull Gerge Irvine's chain by using George's words to describe diving gear and procedures that George would never agree were DIR. As such, it really was an acknowledgement that the phrase "Doing It Right" had already acquired an acknowledged association with a particular style of diving.

...to my mind any agency should be free to claim that their way is the right one - they're "doing it right." A unique claim by Halcyon/GUE to the phrase (and the defacto authority to be the sole arbiter of what is right and the freedom to then claim that no one else is doing it right) is preposterous.

Any agency can claim whatever it wants about the quality or superiority of its training. Assuming that Halcyon licenses GUE to use the mark, competing agencies won't be able to use the phrase "Doing It Right" to describe their programs. In the same way, GUE can't use PADI's slogans, such as "The Way the World Learns to Dive", to describe its training programs.

"DIR" on the other hand may well be granted, and will remain such a hot button among so many professional divers that it will assure GUE remains marginalized - and that useful debate about equipment, technique, and diving philosophy between DIR proponents and the rest of the diving community remains nigh impossible for the foreseeable future. As any freshman psychology student can tell you, you're not going to get very far in trying to make your point if you begin the discussion with "You're not doing it right."
Rick

You have made the point before that the phrase offends you. My reaction is that you shouldn't take it so personally. If you don't agree with DIR techniques and protocols, why should it bother you what the name is?

As a marketing tool, it's genius, in my opinion. I think that the mark got started almost by accident, but its power was recognized quickly. People recognize the mark immediately, and even those opposed to it can't seem to stop talking about it every chance they get. That kind of market awareness is the goal of any advertising effort.

I once asked a guy who wrote advertising jingles why his customers paid him to write such annoying tunes. His response was illuminating: his customers didn't care if anyone liked the jingles, they just cared if they stuck in your head. In that respect, if no other, the phrase "Doing It Right" is a complete success because it sticks in every diver's mind, like it or not.
 
So where was all the outrage when OMS trademarked "Configure for Success"?

http://www.omsdive.com/ad-harness.html

After all, aren't you offended that OMS is saying that you're an *unsuccessful* diver if you don't use their equipment?

Oh, that's right, we're dealing with anti-DIR whiners who are using this as an excuse to bash DIR, there's no actual logic involved.

Remember, if you're having a problem with the slogan, keep repeating "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me!" Helped me in my elementary school days, might help you folks too.

Roak
 
Uncle Pug once bubbled...

It's kinda like the Mars/Venus thing. :D

Careful there!!! I might consider that an infringement on my name.:D

Seriously though...after reading this message board for quite some time, I have come to the conclusion that gear that "works for you" is the way to go. Enough about bashing folks who choose DIR vs. Non-Dir vs. Scubapro vs. Aqualung...etc.

Anyone not understanding and not been familiarized with their equipment in a closed environment (pool) is a danger to themselves regardless under which name or brand you are professing your allegiance to.

Practice makes perfect. 'nuf said
 
roakey once bubbled...
So where was all the outrage when OMS trademarked "Configure for Success"?

The glib answer would be "What divers wanted to refer to themselves and others who espoused a similar style of diving as CFs?" or seriously, what body of divers had adopted the acronym or those words to describe their dive philosophy?

Oh, that's right, we're dealing with anti-DIR whiners who are using this as an excuse to bash DIR, there's no actual logic involved.

I don't think you're reading the words here. It seems to me that the anti-DIR divers think this is great, or at least they should. It's divers to whom the letters and the words have some meaning that it's offensive. You evidently get a lot of pleasure from repeating the phrase "anti-DIR whiners" but you can't seem to get a handle on which team they really are.

Remember, if you're having a problem with the slogan, keep repeating "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me!" Helped me in my elementary school days, might help you folks too.

I can think of a few names that have been casually tossed around here, in reference to the DIR zealots if I'm not mistaken. One label in particular seemed to cause some consternation in certain quarters. I don't remember the "sticks & stones" rhyme being sounded then. I also don't remember any real DIR divers having any worries about the "nasty word".

Supposing PADI decided to apply for a trademark on the expression "Scuba Diving" claiming that they as a company have done so much to promote it's popularity and make it recognizable over the last so many years? I suspect there would be a great hue and cry about how they didn't invent scuba diving etc etc

Let me hazard a guess here. Either you own a lot of Halcyon gear and believe that it's the only gear worth owning, or you couldn't care less about what DIR means.

Sure it's only letters and words, but it wasn't Halcyon who devised the concept in the first place. Halcyon only came on the scene as the first company to specifically address the needs and wants of DIR divers. Because of this and because of geographic juxtaposition the company maintained a close association with the core of divers who refined and encapsulated the DIR philosophy as we understand it today. The gear is only a part of the philosophy, in fact a result of the philosophy, and certainly not what DIR diving is actually about.

If anyone is going to own the DIR trademark it should be the folks who developed the concept, not the company that merely supplied their gear. Of course the whole issue is complicated by the fact that JJ is heavily involved on both sides of the fence.

You're right that the whole question shouldn't matter to any of us, it's only a few letters and words, but you know perfectly well that won't be the case, given the amount of bandwidth the whole issue of DIR/STROKE has consumed over the last few years. And isn't this what dive forums are about? If there was no divergence of opinion on matters scuba related, there'd be no raison d'etre for places like Scuba Board. Some of us are just having fun. How about you?

JohnF
 
Cave Diver once bubbled...


Just out of curiousity, have you trained for an air sharing situation where you donate your regulator, switch to your Air2, then make an ascent to the surface while continuing to donate air and use your Air2 as your primary regulator.

If so, would you mind posting about it?

If not, I'd be interested in hearing about it if you ever do.

However it was rather uneventful and it looks like several other people have posted similar replies.

The main concern I have heard people express is about bouyancy control, but I find the large buttons are easier to use than the smaller buttons on the inflator that was removed. The large buttons seem to make fine adjustments easier.
 
*Ace Ventura voice* Allllll riiighhtttyyyy thennnnnnn



wb416 once bubbled...


Obviously... hence my response... which is more than I think you have done since you're still having difficulty differentiating between trademark and copywriting terminology... perhaps you should re-read WJL's post... the devil's in the details...

(not-so) clueless in Ohio,
Bob
 
Stephen,

Nah, they've not turned me off to DIR, I read thier attacks and laugh about it. The DIR Commandos wanna talk, they want to crow, and they think they are "Doing It Right, when in reality, they are "Doing It Rectally". (I wanna see 'em patent, copywrite THAT, notice I put patent and copywrite together again? It so fries them which in turn makes me dance with glee)

Dispite the few DIR elitests who want to pop off and congratulate themselves on being maters of the universe, I enjoy torqing them out, they look so cool as human pretzels. I think DIR still has plenty to offer me regardless of the comments of the blowhards. They totally missed my sarcasm, which is a common thing, no biggie. If after they read my posts and reach for a bottle klonopin, haldol or ativan, then I'm a happy guy. It's kind of cool being able to get a BP by palp on someone's forehead! *smirk* I still wanna wear the "stroke" shirt when I do take a DIR-F class though. I think the weird looks will be the ultimate pay off.

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
I think GQ WAS going to take a DIRF. I think that his first post was intended to be tongue in cheek and meant to be sarcastic. But after all the hits he's taken here I think that he might have a bad taste for DIR. I think that he is now less likely to try it out. If GQ wasn't anti-DIR before I can see how he might be anti-DIR now. I think that's a shame.

GQ, I think that you're a very funny, sharp witted and clever guy. I think that you really are interested in what you might get out of DIR because I think that you are very serious about diving in general.

I envy you. Ocean...sun...chicks...you got it all. You also have GUE training right in your own back yard. Look up MHK or Tamera and take a class. I think you'll have a blast...with or without the T.

How unfortunate it is that this venue often brings out the worst in us. I bet if we were all on a boat off the Channel Islands we would be diving our a$$es off, having a ball. I bet we would make some lasting friendships...and we could still disagree about things!

SA
 
gedunk once bubbled...


thank gosh for the thinkers and the feelers. The world would be an awfully boring place without one or the other IMO.

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

It's kinda like the Mars/Venus thing. :D

Yep. I'm a thinker and my wife's a feeler. Makes for some interesting discussions sometimes. . .complete with pyrotechnics! ;)
 
Well,

As I was about to proceed with a DIR-F class, the DIR instructor told me my choice of BP and wings wern't DIR. My choice was the Dive-rite trans-pac. He said the trans-pac doesn't really follow the DIR principles.. Ok, what gives? This is just hillarious.. I guess if it isn't Halcyon, it's DIW....

This was where I had seen this issue going... I called THAT one right..
 
Eh, I'm a feeller, I guess that makes me the odd man out.. *chuckle*

I FEEL like I want to go diving this weekend.. What's to think about?
 

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