Halcyon files for "DIR" Registered Trademark

[PhotoTJ]

jonnythan once bubbled...


I'm talking to a wall, aren't I?

Not at all, I said it look's disquieting. If you love it, great, I'm glad it works for you. I don't think I'd find it comfortable.

Let's say, that you're motating along, and with your set-up, as good as it is, you snag something on the right side. Even if it's a one in a thousand chance, let's say it happens. You're drifting with a mild current. Is there not going to be a twisting action on the neck if you do not let go of the mouthpiece immeadately?

And this is one of the things I find disturbing about this mindset. If you read some of the posts, it's almost like some people hope they have to share air, in fact, that is the biggest reason I see quoted. I watch my gas, plan my dive, dive my plan, and maintain my gear. Never had an emergancy. (I do practice sharing at safety stops, along with switching to my spare mask.)

I'm not saying I won't try it at some point, I'm just saying I'm having a great time diving the way I do now, with my gear the way it is now, and I don't think that I'd find that rig comfortable, right now.

And my beef with the entire board is that there is too much discussing of this, and not enough discussing of "what happened when I was in the water today". And yes, I do get sucked into it, and contribute my debates, as well. *sigh*

 

[Don Burke]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...

Neck, waist, what's the diff? (KIDDING!)

Just checking.
My next question would have been about fin straps.

No, Senior, but in the photo that primary hose looks like it's actually in contact with his neck, where it goes around behind his head. I'm not saying it's a noose, but I think I'd find that routing....disquieting. Look's like an entanglement could give you whiplash.

I'll agree it looks like a problem. Appearances are deceiving. If a panicked diver grabs that hose it unwraps _very_ easily. Since there is nothing at your throat, strangling you would require something the attorneys call "premeditation". If a diver rips the regulator out of your mouth (BTW, that's the _real_ OOA signal) and scoots off to your left, he will turn you around. In fact, I consider the standard 38 inch or so octopus hose the dive shops sell to be more of a hazard.

We've got to figure out a way to get you into one of these rigs in a pool somewhere. Diving is believing.

If you're ever in the Norfolk area, I can put you in a set of doubles in one of a couple of pools on very short notice.

 

[Rick Murchison]

WJL once bubbled...
You have made the point before that the phrase offends you. My reaction is that you shouldn't take it so personally.

You misunderstand me. I personally don't give a rat's behind what GUE and Halcyon try to trademark. I was using the words "just do it right" and "doing it right" in reference to scuba thirty years ago. So did my instructor, and his instructor. So did the YMCA scuba program.
What I am trying to illuminate is (1) it is a preposterous trademark because everyone is always striving to be "doing it right" (but rarely DIR) and (2) it is counterproductive. It makes enemies more than converts. Whether JJ & Co. want to believe me or not is up to them, but I'd hate to see them suffer what I believe will be business killing consequences if they actually get and then press "doing it right" as a trademark. It'll piss some people off with very deep pockets and the notion that "doing it right" is a legitimate trademark will get laughed out of court regardless of what the bureaucrats in the trademark office do. I think GUE has some great ideas and I use many of the same configurations myself. Much of that predates GUE, some doesn't - but I've gotten it all from the public domain.
As one ardent proponent of DIR suggested, and I think is an excellent idea, if they'd just change DIR to Doing it Rite then they'd keep the sound, the catchy phrase, the idea - and have an inoffensive term that is more accurate.
All of this is academic because the trademark bubbas ain't gonna approve "doing it right" anyway. They may approve "DIR" alone without any amplification. That'll still wrankle with a lot of folks, but much less so than "doing it right." Whether it will be a "positive" or a "negative" business move will play out on its own, and we can all look back in a few years with 20/20 hindsight for the result.
Rick

 

[PhotoTJ]

I was a west coast sailor, and wound up out here. But if I get out there, I'll try it. There is an excellent reason for me to make a trip out that way, (photoshoot), we'll see if the shoot falls through, or not.

 

[jonnythan]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


Not at all, I said it look's disquieting. If you love it, great, I'm glad it works for you. I don't think I'd find it comfortable.

I say give it a try. Spend a day diving with it and see what you think.

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
Let's say, that you're motating along, and with your set-up, as good as it is, you snag something on the right side. Even if it's a one in a thousand chance, let's say it happens. You're drifting with a mild current. Is there not going to be a twisting action on the neck if you do not let go of the mouthpiece immeadately?

If that happens, your shoulder is slamming into something. Besides, if you're close enough to something to get that section of the long hose snagged on something, you're sure as heck going to get the regular hose snagged on the same thing, and with the same effect.

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
And this is one of the things I find disturbing about this mindset. If you read some of the posts, it's almost like some people hope they have to share air, in fact, that is the biggest reason I see quoted. I watch my gas, plan my dive, dive my plan, and maintain my gear. Never had an emergancy. (I do practice sharing at safety stops, along with switching to my spare mask.)

It's not that anybody hopes to have to share air. It's that the most stressful situation a diver can face is being OOA, and being OOA is a "RIGHT THE $@!% NOW OR I'M DRAGGING YOUR BUTT TO THE SURFACE" kind of event. When you need someone to donate air, you really, really need them to donate you air right now. The truth is that it can be *so* easily delt with something so simple. What percentage of diving accidents do you think occurred because someone was OOA and stressed? I'd bet that OOA was a major factor in more incidents than anything else. When you can *guarantee* your buddy will have a KNOWN working reg in his face in a second flat with a lot of hose slack - as opposed to the traditional octo that honestly takes closer to 5 seconds to get in breathable position and is *not* absolutely guaranteed to be working - that by itself *elminiates* a LARGE portion of the stress and will, in many cases, break the chain of bad events that leads to a bend or a death.

So anyway, I guess the short version is that everyone mentions sharing air because that's what a backup regulator is *for*, OOA's are very dangerous, and why not make it 10 times easier and faster and eliminate the long flapping hose all at the same time?

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
I'm not saying I won't try it at some point, I'm just saying I'm having a great time diving the way I do now, with my gear the way it is now, and I don't think that I'd find that rig comfortable, right now.

And my beef with the entire board is that there is too much discussing of this, and not enough discussing of "what happened when I was in the water today". And yes, I do get sucked into it, and contribute my debates, as well. *sigh*

I only get to dive once every couple of weeks, but I get to spend every night on the board

 

[jonnythan]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
I was a west coast sailor, and wound up out here. But if I get out there, I'll try it. There is an excellent reason for me to make a trip out that way, (photoshoot), we'll see if the shoot falls through, or not.

I'm going to be in the San Diego area the week immediately following Thanksgiving, and was looking to do a dive or two while I'm out there. It's not exactly your back yard, but Malibu shouldn't be more than about 2 or 3 hours from where I'll be staying in OC, or an hour from Long Beach.

If you're willing, we can both hop on a boat for a day. I'll bring you a long hose, a short backup hose, and a bungee so we can rig you up with a long hose for the day. We can do the air sharing drills and just have fun diving.

What do you say?

 

[PhotoTJ]

Done!

 

[GQMedic]

I had a longer hose.... *envisioning exotic photo shoots in chatsworth with women of ill-repute and cheesy music playing in the background*

Crikey! You mean reg hose! *slaps own forehead* There I go, doing it wrong again!

Awe, someone just shoot me!

*LMFAO*

 

[JohnCollins]

scywin once bubbled...


The use of the Air2 is different from what is taught in OW, but it is no more complicated. In addition, since one is handing off the primary, it is in some respects similar to the DIR technique, which would also require practice as it is different from typical OW practice.

Reading the DIR book did prompt me to get a 5' hose for my primary for open water diving. I'm not sure I would have done that if I was still using a regular octo. However, since I was already handing off my primary and the logic of the long hose seemed to apply, I decided to go with it.

I'd be curious whether other Air2 divers are using, or considering using, a long hose for their primary.

Yep, I did the exact same thing. Read some posts here, got the DIR-Fundamentals book and next trip to the LDS, got a long hose. That's an example of some of their thinking that makes a ton of sense to me and caused me to start practicing differently.

I also agree with you, I can't figure out why folks think the Air2 is so complicated. Being in the same position all the time and being easily deployed is in keeping with DIR principles even though it is not DIR. Passing off the primary on a 5" hose, sticking the Air2 in my mouth and using my right shoulder dump instead of the elevated BC hose is simplicity itself. I never used to think about practicing with the octo and my buddy, frankly (it seemed too simple), until I started reading the DIR stuff. Oh, I have a ring of the wooly velcro on the BC corrugated hose and a hook patch on the BC to keep the thing from dragging around--streamlining as per DIR principles.

These are the kinds of good things I think DIR has done for rec divers, and I don't feel threatened by the fact that I haven't gotten rid of the jacket BC and Air2 doesn't make me feel like a second class citizen. I'm playing with weight placement and starting to practice buoyancy and trim control in a neighbor's pool since I can't dive much. I've decided to practice being a better diver here where it's cheap rather than on the next expensive dive. I'd never have thought of practicing buoyancy control in a pool in my off season or experimenting with weight placement or trimming out before reading some DIR material. This is all great stuff.

JPC

 

[JohnF]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


Well, in that photo, it looks like the hose passes in front, to the left side, behind, to the right side, and back to the reg in front.

Covers 360 degrees.

That is pretty much the defination of the word "around".

And your definition of "neck" would be? 8)

JohnF