"Guided" 200' dive with a single AL80?

[Skull]

That is the point. This skill as well as others such as maintaining a deco stop plus or minus nothing, are par for the course for a properly trained technical diver.

The fact that you mention it as being remarkable that they pulled it off illustrates that this type of diving is outisde the normal recreational diving experience regardless of whether you are a padi instructor or not.

As for knowing the risks, when you look at the lack of planning, the poor equipment configuration and the incorrect management of independent doubles, both the lack of knowledge and either a lack of good judgement regarding the risks or a lack of knowledge of the risks are apparent.

From a technical standpoint, a 200 ft non penetration dive in good viz with a run time under 30 minutes is, by technical diving standards, a cake walk compared to a more demanding dive in more demanding conditons and the fact that they had to share air on the dive is as pretty compelling argument for their deep diving incompetence.

DA don't discount the guys experience ...I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he routinely bounces on his reef ... I doubt that was his first time ...besides where was the task loading? I for one am not going to rat him out and destroy his livelyhood just because he and a few of his buddies (local professionals) pushed their limits ...

As far as the incompetence of shared air ascent ...isn't that why you guys teach shared air ascents because of miss calculations in gas usuage, equipment failure etc ...the same thing could have happened at 100'...

 

[Skull]

Skull is wrong again!

What I said is it is too expensive

Local shops here in SoCal sell Trimix @ $75/month unlimited fills

On fill in Coz is $120/ fill + tank rental and insurance.

BTW research some of Dr Bills posts ...concerning deep dives on air

 

[Scubakevdm]

What I said is it is too expensive

Local shops here in SoCal sell Trimix @ $75/month unlimited fills

I'm on my way.

 

[Skull]

The concern I have with this dive, is that I don't believe that everyone DID know the risks.

Each day I guide divers and at least once a week I have experienced divers asking me to take them on a CAVE dive, beyond the limits of a cavern. I have to explain why I won't take them and the problems that we might encounter that could take their life. How many times in life do people say " Geez, I didn't know that. Boy am I lucky." Not fully understanding the risks and diving beyond your training, leads to problems and fatalities.

Also, keep this in mind: a good percentage of divers will follow me to the ends of the earth because I am an instructor! There is a huge level of trust that these divers put in me (here is another topic on awareness) and it is MY responsibility that I ensure that we stay within thier limits of training and ability.

Dennis

Apparently they did since three of them were local pros and the fourth was a very experienced diver ... I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Skull]

SDUA ...they rock

 

[PerroneFord]

What I said is it is too expensive

No, you didn't. What you said was this:

Besides after thinking about it you can't get helium down in Cozemel so for Jason to get trimix certified would be useless ...

Maybe you *meant* something different.

Local shops here in SoCal sell Trimix @ $75/month unlimited fills

Couldn't do that here. Everyone would go broke. I can see it now.. Heliox to the Nest. Heliox to Indian, heliox to the peanut tunnel! Life would be good.

On fill in Coz is $120/ fill + tank rental and insurance.

Depending on mix, that's what it is here in N. FL. Trimix is expensive. Period.

BTW research some of Dr Bills posts ...concerning deep dives on air

I have. And I'd bet real money if Dr Bill could dive mix for the same price as air, he'd strongly consider it. Comparing the calculated risk of a scientist doing marine research and trying to make that meet his budget, is a far cry from someone taking other divers down to 200ft on air for the thrill. Dontcha think?

I also live in a place where a lot of diving was done below 300ft on air every week for decades. And that was in overhead environments. The names of those who died doing it read like a war memorial. I prefer to choose a different path.

 

[Scubakevdm]

You are absolutely right. But you have to start somewhere and the Deep Diver course is the one I AM starting with. There's your fuel.

I'm sorry, I only read through the first 10 pages of the this thread, so if someone else has said this between p.10 and whatever the current page is, I apologize. Like many of the others, I agree that it wasn't the brightest dive ever, but that's a pretty belabored point by now.
I just wanted to say that I'm glad to see that you are embarking on a path to the training required for this type of diving. I think as you learn more, you will begin to appreciate the points of view that may seem kinda harsh to you right now. Save this thread, get trained through tri-mix and then have another read at it, and I'm sure you'll see it in a different light. I'm also sure that the things you learn in your technical training will carry over into your recreational diving and teaching and make diving safer and more enjoyable for both you and your students.

I just finished reading the thread and just wanted to add:
If anyone is reading this thread and thinking, "Hey, that dive wasn't so bad" , or can't understand why the guy got so beat up, do yourself a favor... instead of treating yourself to a new piece of gear the next time you have a chunk of spare change, treat yourself to a course instead. I guarantee that you will not regret it.

 

[Skull]

No, you didn't. What you said was this:



Maybe you *meant* something different.



Couldn't do that here. Everyone would go broke. I can see it now.. Heliox to the Nest. Heliox to Indian, heliox to the peanut tunnel! Life would be good.



Depending on mix, that's what it is here in N. FL. Trimix is expensive. Period.



I have. And I'd bet real money if Dr Bill could dive mix for the same price as air, he'd strongly consider it. Comparing the calculated risk of a scientist doing marine research and trying to make that meet his budget, is a far cry from someone taking other divers down to 200ft on air for the thrill. Dontcha think?

I also live in a place where a lot of diving was done below 300ft on air every week for decades. And that was in overhead environments. The names of those who died doing it read like a war memorial. I prefer to choose a different path.

No I don't think, however... from what I can tell Dr Bill routinely dives 170 on air ...and he is none the worse for it. To get trimix out on Catalina would have a good $20/fill surcharge .and no he would not get it for the same price as air ...not to mention he would have to go through the several thousands of dollars worth of technical training to get cert-ed for what he does routinely now on air..He is well aware of his abilities, his environment and his equipment I disagree with him on many levels but his diving skills garner my upmost respect. I gather so is Jason ...and after reviewing his web site and MySpace I have concluded he is very detailed oriented much more than everyother dive shop/op out there. Again my suspicions are he is a great diver from his videos and a really good dive op from his testimonials ...

I didn't read where Jason was diving in an overhead environment ...also didn't read where he was task loading ...except he and the female diver had the presence of mind to do an shared air ascent for a bit ...she recovered and completed the dive on her own gas and apparently knew enough about deco proceedures to complete their obligations ...in wide open reef diving ...Look at the facts of the dive, the info given and assess his total dive ..Hardly worthy of taking his livelyhood away.

 

[Scubakevdm]

I didn't read where Jason was diving in an overhead environment

Decompression obligations put a "ceiling" on a dive, in other words, you can't just go to the surface (without risking injury or even death from DCS)

 

[Dan Gibson]

I'm sure many could but few would try. I'd like to think most people have the common sense not to plan a dive this way.

The four of them knew the risks of a 200 fsw bounce dive and apparently executed a perfect shared air ascent ...how many of you could pull that off-eh?