"Guided" 200' dive with a single AL80?

[captain]

How will the public view it?

Which government agency will be the first to police this "out of control" and "deadly" hobby?


If we don't police ourselves, then the government will eventually be more than happy to do it for us. That will REALLY give you guys something to chat about online...

I been hearing this reasoning for the last 50 years, it ain't happen yet and probably never will, there just aren't enough people dying to catch the government's attention.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

there just aren't enough people dying.

This is a FORTUNATE statistic. But remember, it only takes one somewhat influential person with money to screw it up for all of us.

Do you dissagree with my views that the diving community should police its own instructors, instead of a third party agency?

If so why?

 

[Dan Gibson]

The problem is government moves incrementally. People don't notice it at first. It's only after long periods that we wonder what the heck happened and it is usually too late. 50 years ago probably isn't a good measure in this case. The next 50 years is probably much more relevant with all the law suit happy sharks out there these days. Who would have thought fast food would be under fire 30 years ago?

I been hearing this reasoning for the last 50 years, it ain't happen yet and probably never will, there just aren't enough people dying to catch the government's attention.

 

[Skull]

DA ..look I am not excusing the guys dive ...however I wouldn't call it completely irresponsible either. Simply because of the dive he did and the end result, the amount of times he dives that site, the other folks diving with him, and the fact they were responsible for their own actions and the fact that they obviously knew the consequences since they we pros. If you read my first post before the police should up and want to hang this guy I said he needed to take a trimix course ...maybe you folks missed that. But for the kind of diving this guy does I think trimix is a bit much ...less your selling trimix classes.

HEY DAN do you know Dr. Bill from Catalina Again Dr. Bill who is a guru around here and by far dives more than anyone else on these boards in the ocean dives air and dives deep on air. I disagree with his politics but can assure you I find him to be a very sensible and safe diver who I respect completely.

As to the actual dive all four completed their deco obligations ...the female thought she was light on gas and shared for a bit while completing her obligations on her own gas. Seems all four were under control had the faculities to complete a controlled deco process and came home without incident. The single tank part was reckless but at any point in a deco dive you could easily have a shared gas situation be it poor gas management, task loading unforseen conditions or equipment failure.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

. . .and the fact that they obviously knew the consequences since they we pros.

I think you assume too much about professional level training. I've seen plenty of "pros" who don't understand why this type of dive is bad.

 

[Pez de Diablo]

Helium is too expensive ... most guys from So Cal ship their tanks full ahead of the trip ...same as Honduras

Sorry dude, but you are wrong. I sell trimix and offer trimix course, though across from Cozumel, but my prices are the same as in Cozumel. I also know many instructors offering Trimix courses in Cozumel.

I really hate to think of the cost of sending your tanks down here, full of gas. The proceedures for shipping a cylinder containing high pressure is astronomical.

Dennis

 

[Skull]

OK,

I got to page 10 of this thread and couldn't take anymore. If this has already been adressed, then I apologize, But....

From my observations of this guy's answers and his attitude it seems to me that:

1. He was on an 80
2. He did NOT go to 200
3. He's a young kid, possibly new instructor or DM and trying to look cool for friends/peers
4. He does not understand gas planning, redundant air, or the way doubles work.
5. Anything technical he thinks he knows, he learned from reading these boards.
6. Will not listen to anything we tell him because he hasn't been hurt yet, so it doesn't apply.

You guys have to realise that this guy really doesn't know anything as evident by his posts. He's just an open water diver/instructor. All this discussion about independant doubles, and gas management go right over his head. You are all feeding into his delusion. And taking his posts as face value (barely used my second tank), then having a discussion about his lies is really a waste of time and bandwith.

There are alot of good people on SB and TDS, please spend your time helping people that really want to learn, and stop feeding the fruitcakes like this guy.

I'm going diving now...

Cheers

Are you saying the guy completely fabricated the entire story ...and the video tape on his web site as well?

According to his profile he is just as young as you and has about 10 years more experience than you do as a certified diver. Has it occured to you he maybe in better physical condition than you (pictures don't lie mike go to his web sight and then check out your profile) and thus has a better SAC than you. Maybe his gas managment calcs for a 200' bounce dive in open water on a hard bottom only require a single tank ...yea I know diving a single tank in deco is irresponsible but I don't know anything more than what he has responded too and he executed the dive flawlessly.

Until you have actually dove with the guy maybe you should cut him some slack and not try to destroy him and his livelyhood ... just a thought!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It is our responsability as a community to "police" ourselves and our instructors when we see gross violations of S&P.

Unless this was a class dive, the agency's S&P doesn't apply. Sounds to me like this was four friends out diving.

What do you think will happen when this "herodiver" kills someone, and the family finds out that his gross violations were not only known, but discussed for 17+ pages on numerous on-line forums, and NOBODY did a dam thing? Jeez... Maybe the papers and TV will get involved too... Ya think???

What gross violations? It was a stupid dive plan, but last time I checked, stupidity is legal. As for the papers and TV ... errrr ... these are the folks who think we all use oxygen tanks to dive. Do you really think they're capable of understanding why there was anything wrong with the dive plan?

How will that make us look as a community? Incapable of keeping our own house? Irresponsable Xtreme sports fanatics?

How will the public view it?

With all due respect, the public won't care. We had a much more aggregious example up here last year ... one that killed a friend of mine. It ran in the papers for a day, then they moved on to more important matters ... like the latest doings of Britney Spears or Parris Hilton.

Which government agency will be the first to police this "out of control" and "deadly" hobby?

None ... unless there's a financial incentive to do so.

Wake up folks, this goes much deeper than some punk diving in Cozumel!

Personally, I don't give a crap if this guy gets Advanced trimix certified through the US Navy... I would never recommend anyone to that operation.

If we don't police ourselves, then the government will eventually be more than happy to do it for us. That will REALLY give you guys something to chat about online...

Well, I don't think what you're promoting is self policing ... sounds more like a lynch mob to me. And that's just as wrong as what you're responding to.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[xiSkiGuy]

Has it occured to you he maybe in better physical condition than you (pictures don't lie mike go to his web sight and then check out your profile) and thus has a better SAC than you. Maybe his gas managment calcs for a 200' bounce dive in open water on a hard bottom only require a single tank ...yea I know diving a single tank in deco is irresponsible but I don't know anything more than what he has responded too and he executed the dive flawlessly.

Has it occurred to you that since you lack deco training yourself, you aren't in the best position to evaluate what was done right and what was done wrong on this dive?

 

[Pez de Diablo]

-snip-
Until you have actually dove with the guy maybe you should cut him some slack and not try to destroy him and his livelyhood ... just a thought!

For me this incident is nothing personal, it's about education. If you don't know that what you are doing has risks, you have a much greater propabilty of injury or death. So don't dive beyond the limits of your training.

I know Jason wants to learn more, he is starting by attending a lecture I am giving on extended range equipment and hazards.

Dennis