GUE Fundies?

[lisa1234]

Hi!
I hope I'm posting in the right place- I couldn't find a GUE specific forum, and don't really feel like this fits in the advanced or technical ones?

I posted a few years back about getting AOW but not being any good, and wanting to improve. Several people mentioned GUE fundies and I ended up really liking what I read about GUE.

Because I usually only dive once a year, I'd think it wouldn't be very practical to buy my own gear, or to take a course just to forget most of it before the next dive.

Then I go on a dive trip with my father, spend the week fighting ill fitting gear and seeing truly horrific practices (people going through their first OW dives with no depth gauge of any sort or dives that look more like rock climbing with the DM encouraging people to hold on to coral even in the absence of current and the presence of the occasional stonefish and the DM taking the aforementioned badly overweighted beginners to 25m and some very doubtful swim-throughs... and so, so much broken coral ).

And so I change my mind and decide I want to get better now and start looking for options, and then don't find anything that's feasible, and then don't get a chance to do anything till the next summer and start the whole cycle all over again. But I was just looking through the GUE website and saw that there's a Fundies course next week in the country I'm currently in!!! This is really a last minute thing, but I really want to get better skills and guidance and a chance to try my own gear. It's more expensive than I thought it'd be, though. And it's only three days- is that normal?

I have to decide soon, and thought I've read a lot about fundies on scubaboard, was wondering if anyone had any input?

I have some questions too. Is it a good idea to take fundies with rental gear while I get my own, and can I ask the instructor for help with selecting gear? Would it be ok not to get fins and wetsuits (impractical in a suitcase and different types needed depending on location?)

The "most overstaffed fundies class" thread made me reconsider a lot of the initial misgivings I had about GUE. I've heard GUE was moving away from "DIR", but that's not apparent to me on their website. Not diving with "strokes"? I don't want to take a course if it's just to be told not to dive with my father (who isn't a very safe diver). And if the only easily available gas is air, and you're staying very far from NDL, is it not permissible to use air? I also don't appreciate a diving manual giving unqualified nutritional advice, and some other things like that.

And I'm not sure if I'm good enough to get the most out of this class - is there any way to have a better idea?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I recommend you contact the instructor for the upcoming course and ask him or her whether you make a good candidate, if that is your concern. There is no way to be sure whether you will love or hate GUE until you take the course. You can read all the threads on SB and just end up feeling confused.

GUE IS moving away from the term "DIR." They do not use the term in class anymore. The term still appears on some old class materials and perhaps places on the website. GUE is not very diligent about updating their materials. Feel free to completely ignore the outdated book "Doing It Right," or if you do read it, keep in mind that it is outdated. It does not accurately represent what GUE teaches today.

Fundies was the best class I ever took. I was unsure of whether the whole concept of a diving "system" would appeal to me when I signed up for Fundies. Even after the class I was unsure. I gradually warmed to it. Keep in mind that taking the class does not force you to follow the GUE system after the class is over. Learning something new is always a good thing, even if it is something you decide you do not fully agree with. You will learn something. What you get out of the class may be different from what another student gets out of the class.

Above all, if you take the class, HAVE FUN and ENJOY. Just about everyone says the class is difficult, yet fun.

 

[lv2dive]

No one is ever going to tell you not to dive with your father!

The best thing you could do with the class being so soon is to get in touch with the instructor to see how they are teaching the class. Some classes are broken into two parts, where the first part is more focused on the basics such as propulsion, trim and buoyancy, with second part building on the first with emphasis on skills like basic 5 and valve drills. It just depends on how the instructor teaches the class and the level of the students.

 

[lv2dive]

By the way, please feel free to check out the following link, it has a lot of class reports from fundies and other GUE classes:
DIR Class Reports - A Consolidated Inventory?

I think some of the reports may ease some of your concerns . Also I'd be happy to move this thread to that forum if you'd prefer.

 

[PfcAJ]

GUE is going to teach you the way GUE does things. You're a grown up, make your own decisions post class.

Edit: not sure exactly what's "outdated" about the Doing It Right book. Haven't read it in some time but I recall all the info being solid.

 

[KevinNM]

GUE is going to teach you the way GUE does things. You're a grown up, make your own decisions post class.

I've dove in GUE classes with air because it was horribly inconvenient or impossible to get 32%. If you want to dive and for some reason you can't make the GUE stuff work for you nobody will stop you from diving. You just need to take those things into account.

Edit: not sure exactly what's "outdated" about the Doing It Right book. Haven't read it in some time but I recall all the info being solid.

I heard there was talk about doing an updated and revised edition as it could use it.

Class length for Fundamentals varies a lot by the instructor, students and facilities available. Typically a full class is 4 days, but I've seen 5 days and heard of 6 days ones. People also break fundamentals courses so it can be done over two weekends with the work week off so people can make money to dive more. And then fundamental 1and 2 are two 2-day (or so) classes that give the students a chance to work on the basic skills before doing them while doing other stuff.

At most tech friendly shops they will be able to rent you the gear you need, but the hosting shop might just be a normal PADI shop that offered to let them use the classroom and compressor, but the odds are there is somewhere you can rent a BP/W and other less common gear if they have a day or two to look around.

So you should contact the instructor ASAP and talk to them about your concerned and see if it will work out.

Good luck!

 

[Lorenzoid]

Edit: not sure exactly what's "outdated" about the Doing It Right book. Haven't read it in some time but I recall all the info being solid.

I knew as soon as I wrote that that I had phrased it poorly. I had in mind, for example, in addition to all the talk about "doing it right" in general, the section entitled "A Baker's Dozen: Problems With Computer Diving." The OP also mentioned "unqualified nutritional advice," and while I don't recall seeing any of that, it did bring to mind the discussion of physical fitness. I kind of like the idea that physical fitness is part of the GUE philosophy, but people shouldn't get the idea that physical fitness or nutrition is taught in the classes. The vast majority of the book is as useful as ever, and a great read for anyone.

 

[elgoog]

GUE isn't an all or nothing system. How much of the principles you incorporate into your diving after the class totally depends on you, your buddy/team, the location and type of diving there. And even this can vary from dive to dive. In the end, you want to conduct a safe dive every dive and GUE training gives you a lot of tools to do so.

For example, my wife and I were in Cozumel last month. For the dives there, there's no way we would have been able to do them for as long and as deep as the dives there normally are using the GUE MDL formula (or any tables, for that matter). Cozumel diving pretty much requires "diving your computer" (the horror!!!) otherwise you'll be cutting your 2nd dive quite short. And forget about doing meaningful dives 3 or 4 that day as well. We didn't do GUE EDGE exactly the way it was taught in Fundies but our pre-dive checks and agreement on gas, depth, time were still comprehensive. During the class, you're graded on your trim being horizontal but that's not always the best for certain reefs or walls. I found I preferred being upside down on drift dives where you're above the reef and don't really have to kick at all during the dive.

Your case is a little bit unique since you dive so infrequently. One thing I would keep in mind is that getting comfortable with any diving skills takes practice and time (and, in my case, a fair bit of frustration) in the water after the class even for the really "simple" stuff like buoyancy, trim and propulsion. A few months gap between dives is enough for most divers to get rusty with their skills. Does it come back to you pretty quickly? Yeah, usually in a dive or two - but that's assuming you had put in the time in the beginning to ingrain the good practices that you learned.
I think that expecting that the class, just by itself, will help you figure everything out and have all the skills squared away in 5-6 days is not realistic for most divers. I'm not trying to discourage you in any way. Fundies is an amazing class but requires time and commitment from the diver.

As suggested already, contact the instructor and see what they think. One thing I would add to that is ask them about doing a 1-2 day clinic/workshop tailored to your needs instead of the full class. With your type of diving, you're more interested in the skills as opposed to the card, right? Keep in mind that the GUE Fundies card doesn't give you any additional depth rating or access to gas that you don't already have. I'm going to assume that in diving once a year you're not going to be pursuing any of the more advanced GUE classes that require a Fundies pass.

 

[PfcAJ]

I knew as soon as I wrote that that I had phrased it poorly. I had in mind, for example, in addition to all the talk about "doing it right" in general, the section entitled "A Baker's Dozen: Problems With Computer Diving." The OP also mentioned "unqualified nutritional advice," and while I don't recall seeing any of that, it did bring to mind the discussion of physical fitness. I kind of like the idea that physical fitness is an important consideration to GUE, but people shouldn't get the idea that physical fitness or nutrition is taught in the classes. The vast majority of the book is as useful as ever, and a great read for anyone.

A lot of the 'bakers dozen' still applies to a lot of computers some some of the bullet points apply no matter what.

For the interested reader:
BAUE Newsletters

#1 is legit
#2 depends on the unit, but I will contend that tables make the relationship between time and depth and its impact on your decompression very apparent
#3 meh
#4 absolutely
#5 def (look at the posts recommending new divers buy a $600+ computer)
#6 for sure, related to #1
#7 better with modern units
#8 depends on the computer
#9 often the case
#10 often the case
#11 we've come full circle on the deep stops thing (see thread in Tech Specialties subforum)
#12 wut?
#13 rehash of #1 and #6

All in all I think it has some good points.

Doesn't the silly GUE-PLAN thing include nutrition?

 

[barth]

Why not just try once to dive and talk in real live with a gue diver or gue instructor ? You can try to contact Stephane Paziente. Maybe het can tell you something about gue and dive with you or he can tell you where gue divers are located in France. After that you can decide to do fundamentals or not ;-).