GUE Fundamentals Class Report (22 APR 2019)

[Lorenzoid]

@stuartv , no, I don’t think so. Those questions are effectively part of the course evaluation, even though asked before the official word on whether you passed. I suspect they ask beforehand so people’s answers aren’t biased by a case of sour grapes. I think by that time, most students already have a good sense of how they did in the course and what it means to them to “be a GUE diver.” If you know you did well and didn’t pass, then so what? You were close enough to come back in a few weeks and finish it up. Or not.

 

[stuartv]

Wow. Just...wow. Did you read all his report? You just completely missed the entire tone and purpose of the class and those questions. Obviously the answer to those questions would have had no bearing on a rec/tech pass. Do you think you are the first solo diving, air breathing, trimix mix diver to take a GUE class?

Why yes, I did read his entire report. The sense I got is that GUE is not just about watermanship. It's also about having the "correct" mindset and team approach to diving. Thus, it seemed like a possibility that someone who did not fully buy into Standard Gases and "no solo diving" might be deemed to not have, for lack of a better phrase, the right mental approach to diving to be accepted for further training in Tech 1.

What I have gathered is that a Tech Pass is the gateway to being accepted into Tech 1. I.e. if you have gotten a Tech Pass, you are considered to have all the right tools and skills (including the mental ones) to start Tech 1 training. It seemed like it would be possible that a GUE instructor might deem someone who doesn't "understand" why a diver should always use Standard Gases and never solo dive as a diver who does not possess the mental tools/skills to start Tech 1 training. Thus why I asked the question.

 

[stuartv]

@stuartv , no, I don’t think so. Those questions are effectively part of the course evaluation, even though asked before the official word on whether you passed. I suspect they ask beforehand so people’s answers aren’t biased by a case of sour grapes. I think by that time, most students already have a good sense of how they did in the course and what it means to them to “be a GUE diver.” If you know you did well and didn’t pass, then so what? You were close enough to come back in a few weeks and finish it up. Or not.

That mostly makes sense. I guess you wouldn't want to ask someone "do you consider yourself a GUE diver" right AFTER you tell them they failed the course. LOL

I can see how the first 3 questions would be relevant to course evaluation. I do not understand, though, how the student's answer to questions 4 and 5 help them evaluate the course. Well, unless part of the course mission is simply to get divers to self-identify as GUE divers - i.e. accomplish a Marketing mission as well as the more obvious goals. Which, on reflection, I guess also makes sense.

 

[BoltSnap]

Wow. Just...wow. Did you read all his report? You just completely missed the entire tone and purpose of the class and those questions. Obviously the answer to those questions would have had no bearing on a rec/tech pass. Do you think you are the first solo diving, air breathing, trimix mix diver to take a GUE class?

You need to loosen up your pants every now and then Captain. They are on too tight and it shows frankly.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . I do not understand, though, how the student's answer to questions 4 and 5 help them evaluate the course. Well, unless part of the course mission is simply to get divers to self-identify as GUE divers - i.e. accomplish a Marketing mission as well as the more obvious goals. Which, on reflection, I guess also makes sense.

Call me naive, but I don't get the impression it's "marketing" as much as feedback that helps GUE understand HOW different people "self-identify as GUE divers" or, if they don't, why not. What I mean is, GUE doesn't provide a definition of "GUE diver." It's up to individuals to define it as they perceive it applying to them or not applying to them. Maybe it's perfectly fine for different people who say "I consider myself a GUE diver" to mean somewhat different things, and GUE just wants to understand how different people define it. A response in which someone says he does NOT consider himself a GUE diver and states the reason(s) why could be just as as helpful in gaining that understanding. If that's "marketing," well, okay.

 

[stuartv]

Call me naive, but I don't get the impression it's "marketing" as much as feedback that helps GUE understand HOW different people "self-identify as GUE divers" or, if they don't, why not. What I mean is, GUE doesn't provide a definition of "GUE diver." It's up to individuals to define it as they perceive it applying to them or not applying to them. Maybe it's perfectly fine for different people who say "I consider myself a GUE diver" to mean somewhat different things, and GUE just wants to understand how different people define it. A response in which someone says he does NOT consider himself a GUE diver and states the reason(s) why could be just as as helpful in gaining that understanding. If that's "marketing," well, okay.

I agree with all that. I'm taking it one step further. What will they do with that input and their understanding, once they have it? I'm guessing they would look at (subtle) changes to how they conduct the training, so that more people end up self-identifying as GUE divers. So, maybe "market research" might be a better description than "marketing". But, market research is still part of what the Marketing department does.... If they aren't going to use that input as a progenitor to change, why solicit it?

 

[Sean Walberg]

I agree with all that. I'm taking it one step further. What will they do with that input and their understanding, once they have it? I'm guessing they would look at (subtle) changes to how they conduct the training, so that more people end up self-identifying as GUE divers.

I read it as an attitude question. The kind I'd answer with something like "No I don't. This course has taught me that being a GUE diver requires an incredible level of skill and experience, and I can only dedicate myself to improving my skills.". The person that answers "Hell yea, I'm awesome" is the one you need to worry about...

 

[ls23]

I'm pretty sure these questions were a personal thing the instructor added to her course and you are all reading way too much into it. I did not get asked those questions during my Fundamentals course (with a different instructor) last year.

 

[PullYourselfTogetherMan]

Thanks for the great report! And, congratulations on earning your Rec pass!

Any idea how the answers to these questions would affect getting a Rec or Tech pass?



For example, what if your answers had been:

4. Do you consider yourself a GUE Diver?
No.
5. Why or why not?
I don't believe that Nitrox is required for every dive - air is fine for many dives at recreational depths. I would generally choose the Best Mix for a dive, rather than limit myself to a Standard Gas. And, I believe that Solo diving is perfectly acceptable for people with the right training, skills, mindset, and equipment.

Do you think you would still have gotten your Rec pass? Would someone who otherwise qualified still get a Tech pass?

The way Mer explained it to us was that a fundies rec pass was more open ended than a tech pass and that a tech pass meant that the student could begin Tech 1 or Cave 1 that same day and begin training. That being said, I find it potentially problematic if you rejected some very core concepts of GUE like team diving and standard gasses and then went into an intense and, lets face it, dangerous environment like a cave or 200+ft depth for extended time. I would assume other team divers would be apprehensive about diving with you in a non-training setting but when it comes to T1 or C1 courses you would be using standard gasses and diving as a team or they wouldn't let you take the course.

So they'd def give you a rec pass as a self proclaimed solo diver and one who doesn't use standard gasses but they might not if you're trying for a tech pass. I don't think you could even take C1 or T1 without being on board with those two concepts. Gotta ask an instructor.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Yeah, I got that, @stuartv , but I still (naively?) don't believe their goal is for more people to walk around saying "I consider myself a GUE diver." I would guess there are people whom others would, from all outward indications, consider to be GUE divers who are reluctant to call themselves "GUE divers." From a pure diving perspective, I would guess GUE is satisfied simply having people diving GUE's way--whatever those people wish to call themselves.

There is also the wrinkle of being a "GUE member"--a dues-paying member of the GUE organization--which is not the same as holding a GUE cert card or, for that matter, not even necessarily related to being a diver. However one defines "GUE diver," it clearly does not mean the same thing as a "GUE member." There are GUE divers who aren't GUE members, and probably even a few GUE members who aren't GUE divers. Even a non-diver is welcome to join GUE. Now, I suppose it's possible that the question is intended to help market GUE memberships, as someone who considers himself a GUE diver is more likely to buy a membership.