DIR- GUE GUE CCR Discussion (split from Tec Pass Thread)

[justinthedeeps]

the whole point of backmounted bailout is to have a large supply immediately accessible. Carrying extra stages to make up for the missing volume due to a surface logistics issue isn’t the best method, in my opinion. Option 1: don’t dive.

But one could argue that half full twin 50's is still more on the back than a 3, or just as much as a single 7 of dil--so there isn't much difference--just bulkier. In all three cases you'd still be adding on a deep BO stage

Sorry for hijack, just trying to wrap brains around the whole Fundies to tech progression, both in its intentions as well as its real-world affects on diving options/practice

 

[PfcAJ]

But one could argue that half full twin 50's is still more on the back than a 3, or just as much as a single 7 of dil--so there isn't much difference--just bulkier. In all three cases you'd still be adding on a deep BO stage

Sorry for hijack, just trying to wrap brains around the whole Fundies to tech progression, both in its intentions as well as its real-world affects on diving options/practice

The 50s are backmounted bailout. A 3l isn’t bailout. It’s dil.

a stage isn’t immediately accessible via BOV. It’s not on a longhose. It’s sitting right next to your hyperoxic deco gases. It’s not at all the same as backmounted bailout.

 

[rjack321]

But one could argue that half full twin 50's is still more on the back than a 3, or just as much as a single 7 of dil--so there isn't much difference--just bulkier. In all three cases you'd still be adding on a deep BO stage

Sorry for hijack, just trying to wrap brains around the whole Fundies to tech progression, both in its intentions as well as its real-world affects on diving options/practice

Anyone on the cusp of a tech pass is years away from wonder whether 1900 psi in twin 50s is enough BO/dil for their CCR dive.

 

[justinthedeeps]

Anyone on the cusp of a tech pass is years away from wonder whether 1900 psi in twin 50s is enough BO/dil for their CCR dive.

I certainly agree on that for the original purposes of this thread

 

[Heat Miser]

Anyone on the cusp of a tech pass is years away from wonder whether 1900 psi in twin 50s is enough BO/dil for their CCR dive.

I bought a rEvo (CCR) and got certified less than a year after I did Fundies. I understand what Jarrod Jablonski and Richard Lundgren are saying about slowing down a bit, by suggesting Tech1 before going onto a CCR, but I live 2,500 miles from Sydney (ie nowhere near GUE) and I'm off to Bikini in 2022 - I'm not going there on open circuit. I need the practice ahead of time, I still dive with a full Ally 80 BO regardless of how shallow, better to be safe than sorry.

 

[AJ]

Don't justify saving costs/time required to get proper training and get yourself up to a level where you can safely manage the dives you want to do, just because you "won't go there on OC" - that makes sense, but in my opinion - wait a while and get trained properly - you'll enjoy the dives more

I agree totally on never cutting corners when it comes to training. However, when it comes to CCR training I myself would pass on the GUE solution. I would also seek (and that's what I'am doing now) other quality CCR training. It turned out for me high quality CCR training is more nearby (couple of 100 km's in stead of thousands of km's) and more convenient to plan (not a two weeks travel and training, but four to five weekends nearby). Besides that, non GUE CCR training gives me more choice than just the GUE solution (aka "Franken JJ-CCR"). Besides that, the cost of GUE training would easily be four to maybe six times as high for Tech1/CCR1 compared to "normal" MOD1 training. Also there would be an obligation for a costly change for the JJ-CCR to a GUE compliant setup). Total costs for CCR MOD1 including rebreather would double easily (which is a lot of money) without significant benefits to me besides just getting a GUE certificate. Therefore, to me the benefits of GUE training and CCR config are just not enough, so that also steers my choice away from GUE CCR.

If you're in for deep OC diving, I would say anytime: go for GUE!!!! If CCR is your future, imo don't bother with GUE unless you really really really want to dive in (mixed) GUE project teams.

 

[grantctobin]

Meh. You'd be surprised the value of a Tech1 or very demanding Normoxic course when it comes to having your **** together while bailing out from CCR.

I agree totally on never cutting corners when it comes to training. However, when it comes to CCR training I myself would pass on the GUE solution. I would also seek (and that's what I'am doing now) other quality CCR training. It turned out for me high quality CCR training is more nearby (couple of 100 km's in stead of thousands of km's) and more convenient to plan (not a two weeks travel and training, but four to five weekends nearby). Besides that, non GUE CCR training gives me more choice than just the GUE solution (aka "Franken JJ-CCR"). Besides that, the cost of GUE training would easily be four to maybe six times as high for Tech1/CCR1 compared to "normal" MOD1 training. Also there would be an obligation for a costly change for the JJ-CCR to a GUE compliant setup). Total costs for CCR MOD1 including rebreather would double easily (which is a lot of money) without significant benefits to me besides just getting a GUE certificate. Therefore, to me the benefits of GUE training and CCR config are just not enough, so that also steers my choice away from GUE CCR.

If you're in for deep OC diving, I would say anytime: go for GUE!!!! If CCR is your future, imo don't bother with GUE unless you really really really want to dive in (mixed) GUE project teams.

 

[Hartattack]

Meh. You'd be surprised the value of a Tech1 or very demanding Normoxic course when it comes to having your **** together while bailing out from CCR.

I have to agree with Grant here. I've yet to even touch a rebreather. 1. they scare me. 2. I'm not ready.

I've been diving for quite a while and have a few certs. Nevertheless, when it comes to something that complex which requires numerous checklists and procedures—I want the best possible training to prepare me before going on said machine to the very best training while on the equipment. Whether you like it or not, our lives are in the hands of engineers (Jurassic Park quote comes to mind) and that warrants a hefty dose of conservatism and pause before jumping into the deep end IMHO.

All things considered, please do what works best for you but make sure you also come back to your friends and family. This is just a hobby we all enjoy.

For a bit more, check out this video.

 

[AJ]

Meh. You'd be surprised the value of a Tech1 or very demanding Normoxic course when it comes to having your **** together while bailing out from CCR.

Did'nt say I would not do Tech 1 or an other Normoxic course Just said the GUE CCR path is too cumbersome and expensive for me in regards to the perceived benefits. There are more very good trainers out there than just GUE instructors. Furthermore, I really dislike the GUE JJ-CCR solution so that's not an option for me anyway.

 

[barth]

well this is a DIR (what's DIR anyway? ) or should I say GUE forum.

1. In GUE - there are no shortcuts.
2. Compared to other agencies - GUE is a shortcut to become a better diver.

For 51 meter dives:
GUE: tech 1, CCR1, 25 dives
Other agency: mod 1, mod 2

I can't tell you what is better when the instructor is good.

What I can tell you is that last year it was hard to get helium fills. It took a lot of time to get helium fills. It also did cost a lot of money (D18 18/45). I did just 1 tech 1 dive last year. After that I decided that I should do more techdiving or stop techdiving.

In november 2019 I did gue CCR1, in december 2019 I got finally my own tanks and lola valves for my JJ. The first 3 month in 2020 I was getting more experience with the JJ and doing shallow dives. But after that I did 27 dives which would be tech 1 dives at open circuit. (This year my dive trip in may was canceled. Otherwise it would even be more.)

I do understand that people are telling that you should do normoxic training and after that start with the JJ. I do understand that GUE requires tech 1 (+ 25 tech 1 dives).

But I do not agree that the GUE route is the best for everybody and that taking another route is a shortcut. For my situation it was the best. But I also understand if other divers do fundamentals, mod 1 and mod 2.

I agree totally on never cutting corners when it comes to training. However, when it comes to CCR training I myself would pass on the GUE solution. I would also seek (and that's what I'am doing now) other quality CCR training. It turned out for me high quality CCR training is more nearby (couple of 100 km's in stead of thousands of km's) and more convenient to plan (not a two weeks travel and training, but four to five weekends nearby). Besides that, non GUE CCR training gives me more choice than just the GUE solution (aka "Franken JJ-CCR"). Besides that, the cost of GUE training would easily be four to maybe six times as high for Tech1/CCR1 compared to "normal" MOD1 training. Also there would be an obligation for a costly change for the JJ-CCR to a GUE compliant setup). Total costs for CCR MOD1 including rebreather would double easily (which is a lot of money) without significant benefits to me besides just getting a GUE certificate. Therefore, to me the benefits of GUE training and CCR config are just not enough, so that also steers my choice away from GUE CCR.

If you're in for deep OC diving, I would say anytime: go for GUE!!!! If CCR is your future, imo don't bother with GUE unless you really really really want to dive in (mixed) GUE project teams.

GUE CCR1 and 25 dives is MOD2. You're allowed to dive 15/55... (The standard gas for 45 - 60 meter is 15/55 for GUE CCR, You're allowed to dive to 51 meter, I guess you should use the standard gas for that depth, 15/55.)

For techdiving I will do CCR2. But It will take at least more then a year before I will do CCR2. But for cave diving there is just one CCR cave instructor. It's not possible to do gue DPV1 with a JJ and also not possible to do gue DPV cave with a JJ. If I spent a lot of money at training I want to use my JJ in the training. I probably will do cave training not at GUE.