GUE and Sidemount position ?

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I think you are right AJ, not much of a presence in Cave Country. Some in Mexico and significantly more in Europe, Asia and Scandinavia. There have been 2 UTD Cave exploration/mapping projects recently in China. Most of the Instructors I know were NASCDS/NACD/IANTD/TDI previously.

Please define in Europe - I'm sure 99,9 % in France (Cave diving at Gramat at least) divers never saw any UTD system - and I wonder if they will be open to welcome a new diving system. UTD got no french instructor - you will need a special diploma to be allowed to work (work permit) even GUE do not have a native french instructor.

That's why I don't get "significantly more in Europe" I mean where ?
Italy (6), Scandinava (2), Spain (11)
 
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This thread just went off the rails. THAT, sir, is TOO MUCH.

Some ******' people...bbq sauce on a goddamn steak? Don't get me wrong, bbq sauce is the Lord's condiment, but it does NOT go on a steak.

Philistine...

Steak is flexible

LMFAO :D
 
... have accepted that in a cave environment in particular, we are 99.999% likely to have some sort of warning prior to being mugged for a regulator where we can grab the long hose and get it in the mouth of the other diver fast enough for it to not be a concern.

The solution I use is to teach my overhead SM divers to always switch to/breathe off the long hose when passing restricted areas.

On arrival at a restriction, the team pauses and gets cohesion. Gas is checked. Divers switch to long hose (if not already breathing it). Team signals "OK". Team passes restriction.

You could throw in a quick mod-S whilst you're at it.

Problem - solved.

One thing about most restrictions... they're restricted. Which actually makes it quite hard for someone to unexpectedly snatch a reg.

In that scenario, an OOG is much more likely to be announced via light or tactile signals... and the donor would hand-off the (correct) regulator in response.... especially if their training has pre-empted the scenario and made that a protocol.
 
UTD got no french instructor - you will need a special diploma to be allowed to work (work permit) even GUE do not have a native french instructor.
That's incorrect... David Mayor (although not in France most of the time) and Stephane Paziente are french UTD and GUE instructors respectively.

I was however about to question where in Europe "UTD is much more implemented", because here around I don't see that many UTD guys, and few GUE guys (but they do exist, according to ancient mythology) :D. So if you have some more info @decompression ?
 
following their deco profile is far more likely to land you in the hospital than the Z-system based on the results of that study

Conclusion is that RD is more dangerous

We can have a sound discussion on the pro's and con's of the Z-system, I'm all for that, and I've presented some of the benefits I see, relevant to my personal diving.

You make your points, and you account that it's your personal take on it. I'm okay with that.

Some of the principles you mention in your evaluation are met in your view, others in your view less or not so. I don't have a problem with that.
Of course there should be room in a discussion for personal views.

I think such discussions are what fora are good for.

What I don't think they're good for, is taking study findings and extrapolating on them to fit a subjective narrative.

If you don't see any other pro's and con's in choice of decompression strategy and gas than bubble-for-bubble evaluation, that's one thing.
I had a pleasant conversation with Dr. Mitchell about that in the string you link to.

But as for the study, which unless I'm mistaken is the first of it's kind performed with sports divers, it clearly states in its conclusion section that the results can't be extrapolated. Nor that there is understanding to support correlation across the findings toward risk evaluation. That is what the rapport you're referring to, says.

The words of the rapport stand in stark contrast to your exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims quoted above.

Further, reading the rapport, looking at the dive profile in the experiment and comparing it to the RD blueprint, you'll see that it's exactly on the limit of one deco compartment in RD and another, on the side that in RD emphasises deep stops more heavily. Only just.
With a bottom time 60 seconds shorter, the ascend looks very different, with less emphasis on deep stops.

How would that change the results? We don't know. There's a lot about decompression that we don't. I think we'd all be better off accepting as much and working on from there.
 
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This thread just went off the rails. THAT, sir, is TOO MUCH.

Some ******' people...bbq sauce on a goddamn steak? Don't get me wrong, bbq sauce is the Lord's condiment, but it does NOT go on a steak.

Philistine...

But which BBQ sauce are you talking about? The molasses type, the mustard type, or the vinegar type?
 
Not the vinegar type.

Bob and I were debating about the merits of various BBQ joints last night. I think I have to go to Micanopy soon.
 
.. it's your personal take on it. I'm okay with that.

Given that Z-system is unilaterally avoided by the entire sidemount community (other than UTD, where it's mandatory).... and considering that it gets blasted by all (except UTD members) in every forum and group debate where its raised for discussion...

I'd propose it's quite incorrect to dismiss each and every perspective as 'personal'.... it's about as strong a community consensus as you're likely to get.

There's a lot about decompression that we don't. I think we'd all be better off accepting as much and working on from there.

... and there's a lot we do know... which is why we study and test.

Yes, there's lots of aspects to decompression that we are still ignorant about. It's a slowly developing field.

Ignorance, pending study, is natural and forgivable.

Willful ignorance, dismissing study, is neither natural nor acceptable behaviour.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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