Good news re BP/W choice

[eelpout]

The tank maneuver that Tobin mentioned used to be the way we taught students how to put their tanks on underwater after the ditch and don. It eliminated hose entanglement if you were taught the right way. When you did the maneuver out of the water you had to make sure you could pick up that tank and all the other stuff on it. It was called "John Wayening" your tank. Mike Nelson used to do it on " Sea Hunt" with twin tanks (Voits). I was told by a knowledgeable source that the tanks used in the filming of his tank maneuver were made out of wood.

I have seen plastic buckles, weight pouch buckles, weight belt buckles break. I have also seen stainless steel weight belt buckle get absolutely useless when weights were dropped on them. Failure point is just that, what would you trust your life on if you were hanging on it with you dear life, a plastic fixture or a stainless steel fixture. Now I know there are really good composite materials out there, but they are not being used for shoulder buckles, weight pouch buckles and etc for a BCD.

When selling a BCD, I equate the standard jacket or ADV style BCD as an automatic transmission on a car. The BP/wing is a manual transmission. You have to be taught how to use it and it takes practice to master it.

My wife and I have replaced the webbing on out back plates once in 15 years, and that was due to no maintenance from teaching in chlorinated pools. Everything else except for patches on the wing, are the same for me (single tank wing/ STA). Before that, I used to grab a new BCD every 2 years (used to own a store) because they got ratty after being in the pool all the time. I saved a lot of money by learning to use a BP/wing. So 9 years ago I got a Kydex BP and a wing for my daughter. It was her first BC. She now uses a SS BP/wing.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The fact that for the vast majority of users a single piece Hogarthian Harness is perfectly usable *without* any extras is IMO part of what allowed "Plastic can be a Pita if it breaks" morph into "you are going to die"

I also think some of that was just dramatics to sell a certain philosophy too.
Yeah plastic can fail, but believe it or not I've seen those rubber weight belts fail more than plastic connectors. My first ab diving buddy had one tear in half right on the beach as we were gearing up to go in. We managed to Jerry rig it good enough to complete the dive session.
I had a brand new one rip right in half when I went to pick it up by the strapping. It seems all it takes is to have one small nick in the side and they let loose with no warning. I've had endless arguments with people over this with them saying I was full of it, but I've had it happen. So when I was into tech diving I never used one because it would suck to have one let loose with a deco obligation.
With plastic it could be the same I suppose, but lets say someone is using one plastic shoulder release on one side because they might have a bad shoulder. If they're into tech they will have a slung bottle on that side anyway so even if the plastic clip gives way they'd still have the shoulder connected by the stage bottle top and bottom.
I think for travel there's nothing wrong with using plastic waist buckle and plastic cam buckles to save weight.
With typical recreation jacket BC's, I really don't think the manufacturers are too worried about "failure points" with the crowd they are marketing their gear to. It just needs to look cool, be comfortable trying it on in the store, and have lots of adjustment options. To try and make all those connection points out of some sort of stainless clip/connector would be way too big of a pain, plus expensive.

 

[geoff w]

My take FWIW - I have a Dive Rite backplate and TransPlate harness I dive in most weekends, mostly for beach dives, which frequently involves walking up and down trails and across soft sand while fully geared up. Typically in 7mm full suit and hooded vest underneath. The TransPlate is really comfortable. Buddies with continuous webbing sometimes complain. One buddy / instructor swapped his continuous webbing for a TransPlate harness and commented on how much more comfortable it is. Another instructor friend says after a day teaching OW divers his continuous webbing is uncomfortable and keeps looking at my TransPlate harness. Neither of these guys has anything to prove as far as being tough or cool.

Last year I picked up a light backplate for a trip to Palau, decided to go with continuous webbing. It's definitely not as comfortable as the TransPlate. Needless to say, my wife has the TransPlate harness on both her regular and light backplates.

When I go out on local boats, I dive dry, and the adjustment on the TransPlate harness makes it much easier to set things right for different exposure protection thickness between diving wet and dry.

Final comment - when do you ever see plastic buckles break on recreational dive gear? If I was a tech diver, which I'm not, I'd certainly dive with continuous webbing, but for recreational diving there's nothing wrong with comfort

If you don't like all the D-rings on the TransPlate, you don't have to put them on. It still works

 

[scubadada]

Typical, predictable SB BC thread. To each their own. I have a 10 year old SP Knighthawk with a few over 900 dives on it. Perfectly dependable, no failures. If anything ever went wrong with it, I'd be in the market for a new BC. I bought it on the old DAN auction for well under the list price a decade ago. I've certainly gotten my money's worth.

 

[Rusty Roo]

seeing as this thread is full of wing experts. (i'm being genuine here) what would you guys recommend for the following.

my webbing isn't the easiest to adjust (dirzone 14 kilo wing with ss backplate and continuous webbing with only 4 d rings!.)

would you guys recommend this?

DirDirect Worldwide

it's halcyon so can't be bad???

 

[dmaziuk]

seeing as this thread is full of wing experts. (i'm being genuine here) what would you guys recommend for the following.

my webbing isn't the easiest to adjust (dirzone 14 kilo wing with ss backplate and continuous webbing with only 4 d rings!.)

would you guys recommend this?

DirDirect Worldwide

it's halcyon so can't be bad???

a) does it only fit halcyon plates and b) would this work well enough at a fraction of the price? https://www.sub-gravity.com/product/subgravity-backplate-harness-slider/

I can't remember who in leftpondia makes a similar gizmo, I think there was someone... There's also UTD quick adjust that looks a bit closer to halcyon's setup but "fits most plates".

 

[buddhasummer]

I use one of these on left side (canister on right) it works very well. I believe these guys originally came up with the idea.

Pair of Backplate Rollers (Winch System)

 

[Ouvea]

would you guys recommend this?

DirDirect Worldwide

it's halcyon so can't be bad???

If you want on the-fly adjustability, then try the Agir Brokk Harpa Loops. They are similar in function to Tobin's Glide Adapter.

O.

 

[buddhasummer]

As you can with the Kent tooling rollers, they are cheaper too and will fit all brands of BP. The AGIR ones will not fit all BPs.

 

[dbulmer]

seeing as this thread is full of wing experts. (i'm being genuine here) what would you guys recommend for the following.

my webbing isn't the easiest to adjust (dirzone 14 kilo wing with ss backplate and continuous webbing with only 4 d rings!.)

would you guys recommend this?

DirDirect Worldwide

it's halcyon so can't be bad???

Rusty,

Why do you want to re-adjust your harness? I can see the value in the cinch for dive pros/schools etc but your average diver might need to tweak their harness once in a blue moon.