Good beginner set-up?

[WillAbbott]

Fetch once bubbled...
Where to start...

Thx for the input. Yes we used the Titans in OW and I thought they worked good, they are my instructors and older model, so well used. As I said I might step up to the nicer Titan LX which supposedly breathes even easier (I didn't notice any wet breathing on the Titan)

It sounds like wrist mount is for sure the way to go. I hadn't even thought about ascents. Maybe for my next computer (later on down the road) I'll get a console one as I'd like to eventually carry 2 computers on every dive, and well 2 on your wrists is crazy

As for back inflate.... I have no way to judge other than knowing I didn't mind the jacket, I actually like it, except for a few minor problems that I feel are due to it being a Medium and I probably need a M/L. We used low end older SeaQuests. And I must say the Pro QD has me impressed (not sure thats a good word choice).

I know my LDS could set me up with a back inflate, and I know they actually do have a $1000 package with a tech/back inflate BC. I guess maybe I should try one on a rental sometime (if I can) and see. I belive the one they have in their package is infact the Black Diamond (don't quote me on that) as the Raider doesn't look like the one I remember and niether does the balance. It also had a few items like a knife I dont need/want as I have the same one already (and I'm sure they'd drop it from the deal for me, and take some money off)

I have read some of the posts here about back inflates... and yes they do get kind of flamey fast. Not to get on the subject (so please don't) but I had heard of a few problems with them, which my instructor as well as other places I've read info all said thats normal, and is a problem <b>IF</b> you over inflate them (that is a tendancy to float face down at the surface)

I personnaly don't see any true reason to get myself a back inflate at least not yet in the game. I do like pockets (gotta store crap somewhere) and D-rings for hooking lights, etc. Both BC's (the Pro QD, and whatever the tech/back inflate one was) have many D-Rings, and if memory serves pockets.

I did think $415 was a little high for the computer, but didn't think it was in the console. I may end up having to buy one online, and buy the rest of my gear from them (though I do feel bad about it)

Does anyone know/remember if my memory is serving me correct about buying Suuntos online ( I know many of you have bought them from leisurepro) is there any problems with warranty, or if i have a problem in getting it dealt with? Do I have to just deal with Suunto instead of the shop? and is this a big problem?

I've really shy'd away from online because of "problems" like this and the fact that I really like my shop.

I guess I'll do some checking and possibly dives with some back inflates as well as jackets (if I can) and see what I think. Feel free to give short reasons why I might lean towards back inflate, since it seems the cost for SeaQuest isn't much different actually.

I've just seen nothing that says to me get back inflate. The idea of keeping you in the swimming possition has yet to be a problem, and may actually prove to be one (dunno) I like to at times go almost vertical while diving (yeah I know I've only done 4dives so far, that probably will change)

Don't want this to turn into a back v jacket BC thread, I can look elsewhere for that, but feel free to give short reasons why I should try/buy back inflate (just don't flame )

OK I'll shut my mouth now... I know I talk too much but hey I wanna get it right... You're somewhat right on the money thing. I'm a full time student and well money is hard to come by (no real job, though I'm doing work for my dad right now to get more) I originnally planned on getting gear seperate, but the package deals do save some money, as well as if I were to get the console computer (most likely won't now, as a 2nd computer probably but not now) and so I was going to get the reg at the same time (and BC as the package would save money) to avoid dealing with rental regs and mounting the console.

Ok, enough already... thx again for all the great info, you've made me have to think, and deffinately reconsider as well as a little confusion in what to do now :bonk:

 

[ERP]

I don't think Fetch was really talking about Back Inflate vs Jacket BC's, but rather Back Plate+Wing vs Jacket BC's.

Just talking about BC's for a second Back inflate vs Jacket style is pretty much a question of preference IMO, I personally find back inflation doesn't feel as restrictive, and provides a better feel when diving, but your experience maybe different.

Once you've decided if you want to go back inflate or jacket it's a question of features and fit. Personally I like to keep the features to a minimum, how much stuff do you really need to drag around with you in those pockets? and clipped to those D-Rings?

BP+Wings are in a way the ultimate minimalist BC, they consist of a harness and a steel or aluminium plate that you connect the tank to. Personally I've never dove one and I don't have strong opinions either way, the minimalism is appealing to me, but it might not suit you. If I were buying my equipment again I would certainly want to dive one for comparison.

 

[WillAbbott]

ERP once bubbled...
I don't think Fetch was really talking about Back Inflate vs Jacket BC's, but rather Back Plate+Wing vs Jacket BC's.

Just talking about BC's for a second Back inflate vs Jacket style is pretty much a question of preference IMO, I personally find back inflation doesn't feel as restrictive, and provides a better feel when diving, but your experience maybe different.

Once you've decided if you want to go back inflate or jacket it's a question of features and fit. Personally I like to keep the features to a minimum, how much stuff do you really need to drag around with you in those pockets? and clipped to those D-Rings?

BP+Wings are in a way the ultimate minimalist BC, they consist of a harness and a steel or aluminium plate that you connect the tank to. Personally I've never dove one and I don't have strong opinions either way, the minimalism is appealing to me, but it might not suit you. If I were buying my equipment again I would certainly want to dive one for comparison.

You're right... My bad, he did say BP/Wings.

no I don't need to carry a ton of stuff. Hopefully I won't be carrying any more than 2 saftey sausages (my guess is a pocket is best for them) and 1 light at day, 2 at night. And possibly a reel or something for saftey sausages, etc, oh and my small otter box (I carry my spare car key in it). Other than that nada.

I was under the impression back inflate was the next best thing to BP/Wings. Guess I was mistaken. I personnaly (no flame or anything intended) see no reason for me to get BP/Wings. Least not yet. Though I might do cave/wreck dive spec. at some point. I don't ever intend to do Tech diving. And though the idea of less gear and more streamlined, better air consumption sounds nice. At the same time I see no real need or what not yet. Thus far I've been somewhat impressed with my air consumption for a new diver. Last OW dives I used a dry suit and 63 (might have been 73, I think 60 is right though) tank while my buddy used an 80 (alumiums). We both got almost identical time out of them. I typically ran lower on air, but he only had another minute of air time or more over me. It wasn't much different. and as it was my first OW dry suit dive (2nd total, pool and OW) I was using the inflator quite a bit. So I was kind of happy I got 25 and 28mins out of the smaller tank.

Anyways. I have some big thinking and decisions to do. As for the computer I've pretty much decided to go the wrist mount route. As for buying it from the LDS or online is still up in the air... still somewhat scared of buying online. And BC... I probably will still end up with the Pro QD, though I hear the Black Diamond (if thats the one they had) is nicer in access to pockets. Amount of weight, fit, and comfort... etc (though the Pro QD also recived excelent rating, with the pockets being slightly difficult to access as the only drawback.)

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Good choice on the wrist mounted equipment.

You will find that you look at your SPG far less often as you become more experienced. Eventually, you should be able to estimate your remaining gas fairly closely.

Wrist mounting is much easier on ascents and for navigation. You can see everything while keeping your hands and arms properly positioned.

This was illustrated nicely on my last trip. I was hanging out at 20 fsw with my arms out in front of me. I could easily watch my depth without referencing the line.

The divers I was leading had consoles. They needed to hold the console in order to watch their depth and ascent rates. In my experience, this is more difficult than watching your wrist.

As to carrying two computers on your wrists, that would not be difficult. I wear a bottom timer (measures depth, ascent rate, and time) on my right wrist. I wear my Mosquito as a backup bottom timer on my left wrist, along with my compass.

There is no reason why you couldn't wear a computer on each wrist, although you may decide that this is unnecessary. After all, if your computer fails, you should terminate the dive. You ascend at a safe rate, do your stops and surface. If you don't have a backup depth gauge (mine is the Mosquito, which backs up my bottom timer), you can always use your buddy's because you will ascend as a team.

Besides, a bottom timer is much cheaper than another computer. OMS and Uwatec make nice ones (they may even be the same unit with different branding).

 

[Fetch]

WillAbbott once bubbled...


You're right... My bad, he did say BP/Wings.

no I don't need to carry a ton of stuff. Hopefully I won't be carrying any more than 2 saftey sausages (my guess is a pocket is best for them) and 1 light at day, 2 at night. And possibly a reel or something for saftey sausages, etc, oh and my small otter box (I carry my spare car key in it). Other than that nada.

I wouldn't (personally) carry more than 1 safety sausage. If the conditions are just wretched, and there's no way you're getting on a boat without a working sausage, besides calling the dive I'd recommend having your buddy carry one. And, what you'd want for deployment is a spool (smaller, much easier to work with, yada yada)

I was under the impression back inflate was the next best thing to BP/Wings. Guess I was mistaken. I personnaly (no flame or anything intended) see no reason for me to get BP/Wings. Least not yet. Though I might do cave/wreck dive spec. at some point. I don't ever intend to do Tech diving. And though the idea of less gear and more streamlined, better air consumption sounds nice. At the same time I see no real need or what not yet.

*chuckle* "Technical" is really in the eye of the beholder (although some people will try to set parameters, there's only so much validity). There's no "cave specialty", and if you get trained to dive in caves you'll be as close to as "Technical" as it gets.

The whole "not yet" thing is what is amusing me the most. Like I mentioned, the difference in price compared to the SeaQuest is minimal. You'll be more streamlined, which is noticeable in the water, gas consumption aside. A BP/wing isn't rocket science or complicated, in fact it is very simple. I dive a BP/wing in conditions much less demanding than what you are apparently planning on, and there are others who dive them in even nicer conditions.

I don't know if you're in a hurry to purchase, but http://www.extreme-exposure.com/ does a deal. They'll sell you a BP/wing setup, and if you decide within a month that you don't want it, you can send it back for a full refund. All you lose is the shipping cost (which comes out to about the same as a rental). Do, at least, give this option a consideration.

I'm being overbearing, so I'll make this my last post on the thread to avoid causing a longer-than-necessary discussion,

jeff

Thus far I've been somewhat impressed with my air consumption for a new diver. Last OW dives I used a dry suit and 63 (might have been 73, I think 60 is right though) tank while my buddy used an 80 (alumiums). We both got almost identical time out of them. I typically ran lower on air, but he only had another minute of air time or more over me. It wasn't much different. and as it was my first OW dry suit dive (2nd total, pool and OW) I was using the inflator quite a bit. So I was kind of happy I got 25 and 28mins out of the smaller tank.

 

[WillAbbott]

Fetch once bubbled...

I'm being overbearing, so I'll make this my last post on the thread to avoid causing a longer-than-necessary discussion,

LOL, not at all. I appreciate the advice. I don't plan to dive any "demanding" conditions. If I led that on in some way, I'm sorry my mistake. I do think I may take the wreck and cave diving courses some day, possibly, but will probably never use that knowledge (in practicallity) other than maybe doing some non-penetration wreck dives. But I think they might be fun and educational classes.

I keep screwing up I guess, I thought you said BP/Wing WAS more expensive. I'll deffinately check into them some more, and check out the link you suggested.

As for the 2 sausage, etc. I've been raised (part of having a dad who trains people in saftey for a living) to be super safe. That means never depending on anyone or thier gear, and doubling up on your own gear, etc. I most likely will end up being a "gear" a holic at some point because of this. And maybe I won't (hopefully, I'd hate to pack a ton of **** around, but it's in my blood )

Anyways, I will check out the BP/Wings some more. I would like to have at least 1 or 2 pockets. and do want weight integrated, dunno if BP/Wings can do that (I think they can) but I will deffinately look into it in more depth and figure out which route to go. Theres allways new toys to buy as well, and I can allways make my next BC purchase a BP/Wings or vice versa a Jacket Style.

Never hurts to have 2 set's of gear

And yes Spool, thats what I meant... :bonk: couldnt remember the name of the smaller one

 

[ERP]

Anyways, I will check out the BP/Wings some more. I would like to have at least 1 or 2 pockets. and do want weight integrated, dunno if BP/Wings can do that (I think they can) but I will deffinately look into it in more depth and figure out which route to go. Theres allways new toys to buy as well, and I can allways make my next BC purchase a BP/Wings or vice versa a Jacket Style.

IMO most BCD pockets are pretty much useless, they tend to be in inconvenient to reach locations and in some cases share their space with the weight integration pockets, leaving very little actual space. You can buy Pockets that fit onto the webbing of a BP+Wing if you want, I've heard of people using a pocket as a routing point for the long hose when they don't have a canister light.

I have 1 pocket in my drysuit leg and no useful BC pockets (I dive a balance), and that seems to be pretty much enough for me. I could see if I were doing more demanding dives where a second drysuit pocket would be desirable.

If you really want weight integration you can buy weight pockets for a BP+Wing, but most people seem to wear weight belts, since much of the weight can be in the BP, V-Weights and STA, you don't have to carry very much on your hips.

All Fetch and I are saying is try one out and see if it works for you, they are no more difficult to dive and you could end up saving yourself $500+ over buying a BC now and a BP+Wing later.

 

[WillAbbott]

ERP once bubbled...

All Fetch and I are saying is try one out and see if it works for you, they are no more difficult to dive and you could end up saving yourself $500+ over buying a BC now and a BP+Wing later.

Yep, I very much appreciate the advice. And I am looking into a BP/Wing much more than I ever had (hadn't even considered it other than curosity about them) I would rather the weight integration/pouches whatever as the belts bug me big time.

I considered possibly adding a pocket to the dry suit but I figured it might be too spendy. And items I plan to carry in the pockets hopefully won't be needed often, but are a saftey item to carry.

Anyway I do appreciate you'rs and Fetch's suggestions I'm going to try and see if I can get a closer look, and try one out (if theres anyone with one around here to try), etc. I'm looking into it seriously as an option now, not just out of curiosity about them.

 

[Scubaroo]

WillAbbott once bubbled...
I considered possibly adding a pocket to the dry suit but I figured it might be too spendy. And items I plan to carry in the pockets hopefully won't be needed often, but are a saftey item to carry.

Do what I just did - $30 + shipping bellows pocket from Fifth Dimension, $4 tube of E6000 industrial strength glue. You've got a drysuit pocket for about $40. I now carry a (second) pair of EMT shears, safety sausage, storm whistle, wetnotes and a spool for my DSMB in there. And a surface strobe on nightdives - previously all stuff I was clipping off to my D-rings.

 

[crab]

I personally added a 5th D pocket to my drysuit for about $40. The funny thing is that the contents of my pocket are almost identical to Scubaroo. The really nifty thing is that each of these items is secured within the pocket via a gate clip to a loop of bungee that is attached to the pocket itself. That way, when you open the pocket and take something out you don't have to worry about all of your things heading for the deep.

By the way, I read this thread with a great deal of interest because about four years ago I made some purchases very similar to the ones you are now considering. All I can say now is, "Thank goodness for Ebay!"

To spare me the typing and you the monotony of reading my somewhat less than invigorating prose, I would direct you to the following: GUE and WKPP. After digesting that for a while, have a look at Fifth Dimension's storefront website to peruse some of the gear in the aforementioned websites. I specifically mention Fifth Dimension because you are physically located close enough to one of their stores to make a drive, although not a quick one, worth your while vis-a-vis the amount of money you are going to spend.

One last thought... Something you must consider when making up your mind is that almost anyone you talk to on this matter has some sort of vested interest in the opinion they share. The dive shops generally want you to spend your money on the products that will give them best margin. People like me and others who offer their opinions on message boards have generally already invested in much of their own gear and, for various reasons, tend to have a propensity to hype or trump up their own ideas. On some levels, this plays out like a Chevy/Dodge/Ford argument. In other ways, it is far more serious than that. The most important thing you can do is consider possible motivations of those giving you advice and weigh it against what you know.

May the force be with you...