Gloves on reefs

[Soggy]

leadweight once bubbled...
Well, I will have to admit to not understanding drysuits. However, my comments above on drysuits were an aside to something else.

Then you would be wise to not discuss drysuits as part of your argument. It only makes you look foolish.

Not that it makes it right, but I have yet to actually see someone diving dry in 80 degree water.

I'm confused. Are you saying that there is something wrong with diving dry in tropical water? If so, would you care to elaborate on what makes it wrong?

Divers have an amazing range of what they find comfortable. On the same dive I have seen everything from a swimsuit on up to a full 5mm with a hood.

You should keep this in mind while you are arguing here. People are comfortable with different gear...you have no right to tell others what they should and should not wear. Was the person who wore the 5mm "wrong" or just different from you?

Incidentally, I wore a 7mm hooded fullsuit in the Bahamas in February. The water was ~70-75 degrees. Some were only wearing 1mm shorties. I was very comfortable.

 

[pdoege]

Works great.

I've been in the same water in a swimsuit and in a 3/2.

I wore gloves too. Nice 5mm Poseidons.

I don't remember touching the reef. The gloveless newbies in their jacket BCs were all over the reef with their fins.

Of course, part of the extreme evilness of gloves may be that they subconsciously fool the wearer into believing that they are not harming the reef when they in fact are fondling everything that they can get ahold of.

I doubt it.

I have a hard time believing that divers with gloves have near the same impact on reefs as effluent dumping and fertilizer run-off.

Peter

 

[leadweight]

You seemed to have read quite a lot of negative implications into my post that are just not there and have combined it with a backhanded personal attack.

By the way, if I had been on that dive in the Bahamas, I would have worn a 7 mil, if I had one.

Do I have a right to tell people what to wear? I do when it concerns protecting coral reefs. I have considerable mainstream support for my position and it is enforced by regulation in many places

Do you think that you have the right to break rules because you think they are stupid or not in accord with what makes you comfortable in the water?

 

[leadweight]

pdoege once bubbled...

I have a hard time believing that divers with gloves have near the same impact on reefs as effluent dumping and fertilizer run-off.

Peter

I did not ask you to believe that. The enviornmental effects you mention are several orders of magnitude in excess of what divers do to reefs.

Diver impact is an independent problem. Not wearing gloves gets divers to consider their impact. I am willing to argue that it improves conciousness of the diver's impact on the reef to the extent that it helps reduce fin strikes.

Do you really think something bad is going to happen if you dive without gloves?

 

[WreckWriter]

leadweight once bubbled...
Do I have a right to tell people what to wear? I do when it concerns protecting coral reefs. I have considerable mainstream support for my position and it is enforced by regulation in many places

Do you think that you have the right to break rules because you think they are stupid or not in accord with what makes you comfortable in the water?

Do you now? Are you the Reef Police? Guardian Angel of the bunny diving areas of the world?

Yes, I do think I have the right to wear whatever equipment I want, simply because it makes me comfortable. It'll never be a problem either because I don't do "hold my hand Mr. DM, I'm scared" dives.

You're getting to be a real PITA Ron. You jump us and then try to hold yourself up as some sort of victim.

Personally I think you're a fairy.

WW

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well, even if we're going to be idiots we should be consistant in our logic. If we decide we can tell some one when they can wear gloves in the interest of the reef we should also be able to dictate the rest of their kit, and how often they should dive in order to be allowed on the reef.

 

[Soggy]

leadweight once bubbled...
You seemed to have read quite a lot of negative implications into my post that are just not there and have combined it with a backhanded personal attack.

Perhaps I read too much into your post. However, saying that one needs 30 lbs of weight in 80 degree water with a drysuit, does make you look foolish...generally it's a good idea to stay to subjects you know something about.

I did not make any personal attacks. I said, "you look foolish." You do. Get over it. Your argument has holes all throughout it. You talk about debating tactics...perhaps you need to take a logic and reasoning course from the philosophy department at the local university and learn how to do a logical proof.

Do I have a right to tell people what to wear? I do when it concerns protecting coral reefs.

You are unbelievable...despite everyone's rational argument, you still are saying wearing gloves protects the coral reefs. Do you have any evidence? If so, you should have posted it 5 pages ago.

I have considerable mainstream support for my position and it is enforced by regulation in many places

So, because it's mainstream, it must be the right thing to do. Just like "because alex said so, it must be true."

Would you at least agree that there are some laws that are irrational?

Incidentally, as you have seen, there is a lot of support for my position as well.

Do you think that you have the right to break rules because you think they are stupid or not in accord with what makes you comfortable in the water?

I have the right to break rules when I am not violating the spirit of the rule. See if you can follow this simple logic:

• Divers are not allowed to wear gloves because it discourages them from touching the reef
• I don't touch the reef with or without gloves
• My behavior when wearing gloves is unchanged
• Therefore, it doesn't matter if I wear gloves, since I don't touch the reef anyhow.

I accept that I may have to face the consequences of violating a rule, but I'm ok with that.

 

[WreckWriter]

AaronBBrown once bubbled...
I accept that I may have to face the consequences of violating a rule, but I'm ok with that.

Aaron, we're talking Cozumel here. $10 will buy you past any rule you want

WW

 

[Soggy]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
Aaron, we're talking Cozumel here. $10 will buy you past any rule you want

Hehe...like I said...I was willing to face the consequences

 

[leadweight]

I was man enough to admit that I do not understand drysuits and that the topic came up as an aside, not really part of the issue at hand.

For a man that would have been enough. However you have insisted in trying to justify calling me foolish, not once but twice.

I am not going to make any more of it. Perhaps you will see things differently later.

So, break every rule you don't like. As you said, you are ready to face the consequences.