Global Warming

[Thalassamania]

And then we have:

"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan '88

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." Ronald Reagan '81

"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?"
Ronald Reagan '66, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park

"I have flown twice over Mt St Helens out on our west coast. I'm not a scientist and I don't know the figures, but I have a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind that people are so concerned about." Ronald Reagan '80.

"The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted... The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees." attributed to Ronald Reagan '79

 

[Texas_Aggie06]

Sorry to disappoint Tassie, but I am not a creationist. And, I still don't buy it that we know what is going on. My contention is with the absolute certainty that much of the arguments are made.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Of course everything with evrionmental science isn't figured out yet, but the evidence for global warming is overwhelming. You wouldn't disregard dive tables because decompression is still a "theory" - would you?

 

[Ann Marie]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

I've reopened this thread after deleting or splitting many of the posts in it. This thread is about Global Warming. Please keep it on topic. If you have comments about the movie An Inconvenient Truth, please feel free to post in that thread. If you have comments to make regarding Al Gore's Nobel Prize, find that thread and post there.

If you have problems with a specific post, please hit the report button and the post in question will be reviewed.

Ann Marie

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[Kim]

Of course everything with evrionmental science isn't figured out yet, but the evidence for global warming is overwhelming.

It's not all figured out, but yes....the evidence is overwhelming. Given that the current US administration has now accepted that it is happening, after denying it for so long, it's strange to hear some regurgitating the OLD administration arguments of denial. It's like they don't listen to the news or something. Or maybe their radios are picking up 3 year old signals....it's weird.

No government in the world denies this anymore. They simply disagree on the right approach to deal with it.

(Media-Newswire.com) - Washington -- Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman said the United States embraces the findings of the 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change ( IPCC ). We agree with it, and the science behind it is something that our country has played a very important role in, he told journalists February 2 in Washington.

Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, stated the IPCC Summary for Policymakers, released February 1. Most of the warming over the past 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations, and human activity very likely is the source of these gases, it said.

The report concludes, with what it says is about 90 percent certainty, that the recent, rapid climate change is the result of increased global atmospheric concentrations of the greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide, likely generated by emissions from human use of fossil fuels.

In his January State of the Union address, President Bush advocated a drastic reduction in fossil fuel consumption and development of new technologies. ( See related article and fact sheet. )

Source of the above quote:
Media-Newswire.com - Press Release Distribution - PR Agency

 

[drbill]

Thal and Tassie, it's good to see well substantiated facts introduced to counter the arguments posed by some in this thread. Kudos to you. I must admit I have tired of fighting ignorance and it is time to go diving!

 

[Thalassamania]

Oh! No! Dr. Bill!

Thanks, I've always believed that ignorance is a curable condition, but the problem is that stupid is for life.

 

[Warthaug]

Sorry to disappoint Tassie, but I am not a creationist. And, I still don't buy it that we know what is going on. My contention is with the absolute certainty that much of the arguments are made.

Thanks to the mods for re-opening the post.

Firstly, that the world is warming is beyond doubt - this is confirmed not by computer models, or fancy math, but rather from millions of meteorological readings taken over the past 1.5 centuries or so. The fact that computer models, ice cores, tree rings, etc, all confirm this only lends weight to the conclusion.

Its also pretty clear that human activity is responsibly for at least part of the warming. But even if that conclusion is 100% wrong, its pretty much a moot point.

Think of it this way, if we take action there are two possibilities:
a) We are wrong, and it costs us $
b) We are right, and save modern society as we know it, and costs us $

In contrast, if we do nothing:
c) We are right, and we get of scott-free
d) We are wrong, and modern society as we know it falls

So doing something at worst costs money, and at best saves modern society. Doing nothing at best costs nothing, but at worst leads to the end of modern society.

Simply put, there is only one option which is morally correct - to do something. Because to do nothing risks everything - not exactly an ethical bet to be making with our kids and grandkids future.


And just one last comment, about absolute certainty. I've worked as a scientist for over a decade, and I can tell you that 100% certainty does not exist in science - the best you get is a high probability. Certainty can only exist once the event has come to pass - which is far, far to late to do anything about it.

Bryan

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Think of it this way, if we take action there are two possibilities:
a) We are wrong, and it costs us $
b) We are right, and save modern society as we know it, and costs us $

There is a third possibility ...

c) We are right, and there ain't jack we can do that's going to significantly alter the course of events.

According to some accounts I've read, this is a plausible outcome ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hank49]

There is a third possibility ...

c) We are right, and there ain't jack we can do that's going to significantly alter the course of events.

According to some accounts I've read, this is a plausible outcome ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Fourth possibility. We're right, we take action, and the outcome is the opposite of the goal. We have, unbelievably, been wrong many times in the past.