Global warming...yes again

[H2Andy]

To say that relativity has little to do with cosmology is like saying DNA has little to do with biology.

bah ... that's the worst metaphor (or simile) i've ever heard

to say relativity has little to do with cosmology is akin to saying beauty has little to do with inner worth

they seem awfully related to many, and they may be in fact related (beautiful people can be good, and ugly people can be bad), but there's no real correlation between one and the other, and you can't explain one in terms of the other

cosmology has left the relative (Einstenian) universe with a cosmological constant far, far behind

basically every cosmological model since Milne has rejected general relativity as an explanatory vehicle for the universe

anyway, my point was that even in Einsteinian models the universe has no edges and no center, and the Earth is not the center of the universe (since there can't be such a thing)

not even relatively speaking

obfuscate at will

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

bah ... that's the worst metaphor (or simile) i've ever heard

to say relativity has little to do with cosmology is akin to saying beauty has little to do with inner worth

they seem awfully related to many, and they may be in fact related (beautiful people can be good, and ugly people can be bad), but there's no real correlation between one and the other, and you can't explain one in terms of the other

cosmology has left the relative (Einstenian) universe with a cosmological constant far, far behind

basically every cosmological model since Milne has rejected general relativity as an explanatory vehicle for the universe

anyway, my point was that even in Einsteinian cosmology the universe has no edges and no center, and the Earth is not the center of the universe (since there can't be such a thing)

not even relatively speaking

First of all, I'm not even sure exactly what the heck you just said, but that may be just my literal mind at work. Second, yes, there are many cosmological models but they all must reconcile in some way wtih relativity theory. Third, GR remains the framework of standard cosmological theory.

Although cosmology, like all fields (except, I guess global warming) has open questions and controversies, the fact remains that modern cosmology had its roots in general relavity theory, in fact, was an extension of of it. Thus, the contention that cosmology has little to do with relativity is still utter nonsense at any level of metaphor you might chose. Eventually, GR may yield to a more comprehensive model (a successful supersymmetry model or string model, as examples) with different predictions. But even string and supersymmetry models are relativistic and must preserve some features of GR.

I did not say that GR was correct in all ways. Only that it has A LOT to do with cosmology, historically and currently. Einstein's equations of gravity lead to the whole idea of black holes, universe expansion, etc. The fact that some of its predictions are wrong or hiopelessly outdated isn't the issue. The answers may not all be right, but the questions would never have been raised were it not for GR.

 

[H2Andy]

so are you saying the universe has a center and the Earth is it? and that this "fact" is supported by general relativity?

cause that's really the point i was addressing, and the position you seem to be supporting

 

[JCAT]

Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

so are you saying the universe has a center and the Earth is it? and that this "fact" is supported by general relativity?

cause that's really the point i was addressing, and the position you seem to be supporting

no; in relativity the "center" is whoever or whatever reference frame is defining the rules... and, in the end, the whole point of relativity is to define a set of laws invariant with respect to any observer, a world with no center at all, so to speak. I agree with your point, the earth is not at the center of the universe and, if the universe has a center...I have no thoughts on that point. I'm not sure the geometry of the universe, if indeed there is only one, is established to that degree yet. If we are at the center of anything, it is by accident alone.

 

[H2Andy]

no; in relativity the "center" is whoever or whatever reference frame is defining the rules...

hey, that explains why i am the CENTER of the world!

(not according to my wife)

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

hey, that explains why i am the CENTER of the world!

(not according to my wife)

Same for me, but in my case it is because my body is beginning to form its own major gravitatioanl distortion in spacetime (and the holidays aren't even over)

 

[scubafool]

Anyway here is how I see it all:
- I fully believe the bible's account of God, that He created the Heavens and the earth.

And so on for a couple of paragraphs, to arrive here:
I even believe in the "Big Bang Theory" = God said it and "BANG" it happened.

Everyone have a blessed and merry CHRISTmas.

Wrong thread, though there was a really good one on just that subject a year or so ago.

 

[H2Andy]

Wrong thread, though there was a really good one on just that subject a year or so ago.

ah crap there goes the thread

:blinking:

 

[Skull]

hey, that explains why i am the CENTER of the world!

(not according to my wife)

Ahhh now you are getting it ...you are according to Einstein the center of the universe ...in that from your point of reference everything centers. If the earth were not the center of the universe then we would have to torture Newtonian physics and Euclidean geometry to resolve all of our equations. ..or at least torture ourselves to solve the problems associated with superposition and other techniques for determining intricate solutions to massive scale physics problems be they outer space/inner space ballistics, propogating fields etc ...

As to AGW when scientist begin to realize that the earths climate is an enormous closed system with multiple feed back loops and multiple inputs then they will begin to understand that a naive view of a greenhouse gas, CO2, in an infinitesimal scale cannot be the culprit behind the warming trend the earth is undergoing right now. BTW a 0.6 C deg increase since recording temperatures was formalized doesn't warrant the degree of urgency that the IPCC is advocating.