General advice to new scuba divers: do not waste your money!

[travisfull]

Yes, it is true. Half budget it was exagerated, 25% does the job.

I agree with some of what you have said, but not this. There are many solid regulator choices. The expensive ones are not noticeably better than the mid range ones. If you are spending more than 25% of your budget on regulators, you are probably over buying.

Any of the major international brands, the major regional brands, or major internet brands will have good choices in the bottom half of their offerings

 

[Ukmc]

In addition to the shop selling you what they have in stock, many will sell you what they have the biggest mark up on.

Possible but not necessarily. If you have a good honest LDS nearby, I would recommend supporting it. You can try out various items. Return it. Get your equipment serviced without sending out (thus maybe only few supported brands). However more importantly, establish relationship with the shop, get fills, go on trips together… For some, it will be worth it more than saving a buck or ten…

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I agree with some of what you have said, but not this. There are many solid regulator choices. The expensive ones are not noticeably better than the mid range ones. If you are spending more than 25% of your budget on regulators, you are probably over buying.

Any of the major international brands, the major regional brands, or major internet brands will have good choices in the bottom half of their offerings.

@rsingler has been quite generous with information. His regulator geeks zoom calls are great. His regulator servicing seminars are great. His YouTube channel where he uploads things is great.

What kind of a guy is Rob? Well a great one of course.

There is a difference in quality of parts sometimes. There is also a difference in availability but for me, this is a non issue. You really don't want to risk a quick regulator service if you have a problem on vacation. Just rent at that point (or have a backup).

There is also a difference in servicing at times. It isn't difficult, but does require attention to detail. @rsingler does a great job making that point in his seminar.

 

[johndiver999]

Possible but not necessarily. If you have a good honest LDS nearby, I would recommend supporting it. You can try out various items. Return it. Get your equipment serviced without sending out (thus maybe only few supported brands). However more importantly, establish relationship with the shop, get fills, go on trips together… For some, it will be worth it more than saving a buck or ten…

I agree, having a good local shop is ideal, but we hear so many stories of bad local shops. Tough for the newbie to distinguish between a good or bad shop, at least for a little while.

 

[lowwall]

Thanks a lot for your input.
On your first point, it is true what you said about one button nitrox computer: however, if the price is basically the same, a multigas computer does all the job (those that you need and those that you will maybe need in the future)

But the price isn't the same. Looking at scuba.com, a Mares Puck Pro is $150 and the cheapest multi-gas computer is a $500 closeout Oceanic OCi. And realistically, people looking at multi-gas computers are thinking of the ones with color screens that are around $1000.

My first computer was a cheap Nitrox type (Oceanic Veo 100nx) and I used it for almost 20 years.

On water exposer VS regulator: I dont agree that much. Mediocre regulator are not fit for cold water, which is the environment mentioned in your post. With a mediocre undergarments you wont enjoy a very cold water dive (but you can adjust the undergarment for the following dive), but a bad regulator wont leave you with that opportunity.

How cold? Any reg I would recommend will work just fine down to 10C water. Even at 5C, you still have several reasonably priced options for environmentally sealed diaphragm regs. Anyone considering diving in 0 degree water should not be looking for general advice.

 

[broncobowsher]

Don't agree with a lot of the OP's opinions, but I don't know that my opinion has any more relevance or validity.

A couple of highlights:

• I have a lot of dives and have never used or needed a multigas computer.
• Most recreational divers will be well served by a simple "one button" nitrox computer.
• I would MUCH rather have an inexpensive (or especially used) regulator for a moderate cost rather than skimping on adequate exposure protection if the water is cold. If you are cold and miserable and uncomfortable, sucking on a titanium regulator isn't going to improve things.
• If you are diving in warm water and using steel tanks, the difference between steel and aluminum plates can make a huge difference wrt safety.

I will counter some of your counterstatments...

• You have never used/needed multi-gas computer, but you are locking yourself out for future use. A good computer that does generally does not cost much more. Done right it is future proof. Drink the right Kool-aid and there will be plenty of support to help answer any questions you ever have.
• One button computers suck. cryptic button taps, when the right screen is displayed, with a long press here and there. Fine for the training period where the absolute basics need to be kept track of but has no room for growth. By the time you need to be programming the computer (Nitrox) you really need a 2-button computer. I started on a 1-button, and if all you ever do is splash, dive, stay out of the red, it works. Nitrox programming, you will want to donate that computer really fast.
• OK, I guess I agree with this one. There are plenty of good mid-range regulators. The simplicity of not having extra features added by the marketing department. Don't need that special rebuild kit for a service. Don't have the extra lever you will never use after the 3rd dive to jam in the wrong position.

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree, having a good local shop is ideal, but we hear so many stories of bad local shops.

So what makes a shop bad?

1. One reason, obviously, is intentional bad advice. That is when, for instance, a shop has identified specific items to push because they give the highest markup. The employees are ordered to work hard to direct customers to those items, even though the item on the wall next to it might be a better choice for the diver. When the first shop I worked for switched agencies, the owner of the agency suggested this, justifying it on the grounds that the higher markup equipment was good, so it wouldn't harm the diver to use it.

2. A second reason is limited supply. A shop will sell you what they carry. When it comes to carrying things, they have to be selective. They usually have contracts with suppliers requiring certain amount of annual purchases of their line, so too many suppliers will make it too hard for them to meet all the quotas. A few years ago, I met someone at a shop I didn't know, and because he was late, I wandered around the shop aimlessly for a while. I decided that the shop had pretty much nothing I would buy.

3. A third reason is limited knowledge. In many cases, the people working the retail floor have a very limited knowledge of diving, especially advanced diving. These are often minimum wage people with limited experience. They will push customers in the directions they know, and what they know may be filled with myths. Years ago I ordered steel tanks through the shop for which I was teaching. When they came in, the employee working the retail floor helped me take them out of their boxes. What kind of tanks are these, he asked me. Why do they have round bottoms? He had never seen a steel tank in his life, and he did not even know they existed. I am not mocking him. I was an instructor who had never seen a steel tank either until I started tech diving training.

If you are going to frequent a local shop--and I believe you should if possible--make sure it carries a diverse inventory and has knowledgeable staff. A shop that offers instruction in technical diving is a good sign. If you walk in and see mannequins dressed in gear packages of different levels of quality at different price points, head for the door--that is one of the techniques recommended in #1 to steer you to specific items. ("Well, yes, this beginner package is safe, but if you are under water, don't you want the best?" Are you going to go cheap on safety for you and your family?")

 

[RobPNW]

On water exposer VS regulator: I dont agree that much. Mediocre regulator are not fit for cold water, which is the environment mentioned in your post. With a mediocre undergarments you wont enjoy a very cold water dive (but you can adjust the undergarment for the following dive), but a bad regulator wont leave you with that opportunity.

In defense of the people giving you feedback, nobody is suggesting that you save money and get a "bad regulator". What they're suggesting is that there are plenty of exceptional regulators that don't have the same mark up and will be perfectly safe for less money.

 

[boulderjohn]

Thoughts on computers....

The computers available now, especially for technical diving, blow away anything available not many years ago. The overwhelming majority of divers will never need a multi-gas computer. The ones who eventually do need one will find that when that happens, the ones available to them then will blow away the ones available to them now.

One button computers really do suck, especially for people who do not use them often. When I have seen people use them on dive trips, they usually have to go through a tutorial and how to use them at the beginning of the trip. It is as far from intuitive as you can get.

 

[DiveClimbRide]

• You have never used/needed multi-gas computer, but you are locking yourself out for future use. A good computer that does generally does not cost much more. Done right it is future proof. Drink the right Kool-aid and there will be plenty of support to help answer any questions you ever have.
• One button computers suck. cryptic button taps, when the right screen is displayed, with a long press here and there. Fine for the training period where the absolute basics need to be kept track of but has no room for growth. By the time you need to be programming the computer (Nitrox) you really need a 2-button computer. I started on a 1-button, and if all you ever do is splash, dive, stay out of the red, it works. Nitrox programming, you will want to donate that computer really fast.

You worry about some people having to replace a 150 computer by making everyone buy a $500 computer. Barely anyone goes tech, let them buy a proper computer then and use the original in gauge mode.

The mares Puck is as easy to operate as a shearwater. One press to cycle long press to select. Doesn't get simpler than that. It's certainly simpler than most of the suntos with their three context dependant buttons