PfcAJ
Contributor
A better way is to have the frame sit so close to the drum that line can't even fit in the gap at all. The Halcyon/Salvo/Lightmonkey reels are made this way. Even #18 can't get in there. Most line on primaries is #24 or #36.
Gearing up and Training for Cavern/Basic Cave
- Thread starter victorzamora
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I'll take a look at them. My instructor is a LM dealer.
Lynne saves money where she can, because unlike SOME people, she has to TRAVEL to go cave diving . . .
I prefer the Halcyon/LM type reels. I've never managed to jam one, and the only bird's nest we have ever had was coming out of Orange Grove once. And what made it funnier was Peter's bright idea to spend our deco in Catfish fixing the problem . . . which was fine until about 200 feet of line came off his arm where he had wound it, and we filled the entire open water area with bright yellow line
OP
victorzamora
Contributor
You did answer the question I forgot to ask. "How long?" Hollis only sells 200', 400', and 800' reels. At what point is it worth it to get the 800' reels? In my line of thought, I had might as well pick it up. As far as spools go, is alu any better than delrin? I'm looking at them and the alu ones are triple the price of the delrin ones.
BTW, the reason I'm looking at Hollis everything is because I get it at just above dealer cost, which is a great discount over retail. It's only worth buying stuff that's NOT Hollis if it's absurdly cheap. I know I'm going to look like a walking Hollis ad by the time I'm done buying gear, but I feel like that's why they give such a fantastic discount to employees, right?
BTW, the reason I'm looking at Hollis everything is because I get it at just above dealer cost, which is a great discount over retail. It's only worth buying stuff that's NOT Hollis if it's absurdly cheap. I know I'm going to look like a walking Hollis ad by the time I'm done buying gear, but I feel like that's why they give such a fantastic discount to employees, right?
PfcAJ
Contributor
800'+ reels are nice when you're exploring cave. But as a brand new cave diver, that's a ways in the future.
Aluminum can dent, and steel sinks like a stone. Delrin is pretty sweet since its near neutral with line on it.
I prefer the wider handle on the Larry Green style, and don't have problems with them birdnesting, unlike the older Dive Rite "lantern handle" reels, which had enough space for line to get in, but not enough to get it out easily. But, the Halcyon/Light Monkey styles are sweet and lots of people love them.
The 800' primary is overkill and it weighs more than the 400'... When you are doing a long dive in the Catacombs, the weight of the reel gets to be annoying.
Used is the ticket. I only have a few new pieces of gear, and if you can afford to be patient, you get great deals on used. You need to know what you want, and be prepared to send money immediately, to take advantage of the best deals. The spoils go to those who know what the ad is even if the seller isn't clear, and who already have Paypal set up
Skip the lift bag. A safety sausage is more useful for open water and could be used if you wanted to use a line for a floating deco stop, but there is typically little need for that in caves. Even if the water levels rise and you have to deco in open water at the Eye at Ginnie, it's not hard to float next to rocks without shooting a bag.
I would also advise maybe not doing a class in sidemount if you are new to it. After lots of cave diving, it wasn't difficult to dive safely in sidemount, but it does take time to learn the finer points of sidemount. Depending on your beliefs on hose lengths and management, it adds additional steps or inconveniences to air share drills... It's not a way to save money versus backmount, not with the amount of cheap doubles setups for sale. It's a tool, one which I rather like, but I will always have a spot in my undergarments for doubled LP85's.
The 800' primary is overkill and it weighs more than the 400'... When you are doing a long dive in the Catacombs, the weight of the reel gets to be annoying.
Used is the ticket. I only have a few new pieces of gear, and if you can afford to be patient, you get great deals on used. You need to know what you want, and be prepared to send money immediately, to take advantage of the best deals. The spoils go to those who know what the ad is even if the seller isn't clear, and who already have Paypal set up
Skip the lift bag. A safety sausage is more useful for open water and could be used if you wanted to use a line for a floating deco stop, but there is typically little need for that in caves. Even if the water levels rise and you have to deco in open water at the Eye at Ginnie, it's not hard to float next to rocks without shooting a bag.
I would also advise maybe not doing a class in sidemount if you are new to it. After lots of cave diving, it wasn't difficult to dive safely in sidemount, but it does take time to learn the finer points of sidemount. Depending on your beliefs on hose lengths and management, it adds additional steps or inconveniences to air share drills... It's not a way to save money versus backmount, not with the amount of cheap doubles setups for sale. It's a tool, one which I rather like, but I will always have a spot in my undergarments for doubled LP85's.
ucfdiver
Contributor
Line traps. I've sold my LG reels for Halcyon 400ft and 1200ft reels...and it wasn't to save money, trust me!
OP
victorzamora
Contributor
Sounds good...I'll buy a LM/Halcyon style reel (Hollis one seems identical) of about 400' as well as two ~100' delrin spools.
JahJahWarrior, could you describe in more detail what you mean about the "finer points of sidemounting" as well as hose length opinions and the problems that presents? Also, how comfortable should I be in sidemount before I start this course? I'm already pretty comfortable with it, and that my setup only needs a little bit of tweaking. Also, one of my "mentors" here in town is a pretty avid sidemounter so I will be asking him for help/advice. Would that help? Also, I've never been diving BM doubles....will I be more comfortable in BM doubles than I will SM in the same number of dives?
JahJahWarrior, could you describe in more detail what you mean about the "finer points of sidemounting" as well as hose length opinions and the problems that presents? Also, how comfortable should I be in sidemount before I start this course? I'm already pretty comfortable with it, and that my setup only needs a little bit of tweaking. Also, one of my "mentors" here in town is a pretty avid sidemounter so I will be asking him for help/advice. Would that help? Also, I've never been diving BM doubles....will I be more comfortable in BM doubles than I will SM in the same number of dives?
TreyR
Contributor
I'm more comfortable in SM than BM. They each have their pros and cons. As it was described to me they are both tools and serve a purpose and neither is right in all circumstances. In a class setting BM is going to be far easier the SM. You will already be task loaded with the skills in the class. SM requires you to monitor 2 spgs to maintain sixths and requires reg swaps while having drills thrown at you. Some instructors prefer you do the classes in BM. As mentioned I would discuss it with your instructor. Which ever route you go you need to be comfortable with your trim and buoyancy in your chosen rig.
I love sidemount, dont get me wrong. I learned it quickly without an instructor but with several mentors and lots of dives. But I dont think its for everyone, and now Im down to using SM mostly for solo dives and exploration
when Im diving with BM people, I show up with BM gear. In a class where the instructors job is to task load you, throwing lights out drills and air shares at you every which way, the last thing you want is to be guessing which second stage to donate, remembering when to switch, fumbling for your lights in pockets you cant reach as easily as in BM, or dealing with hoses that are just long enough to drag in the silt (bug antennae SPGs are particularly bad at this, catching silt or lines any chance they get if you arent careful) or just too short to allow you to feel comfortable.
Second stage hoses: Long hose on one, long hose on both? If long hose on one, which side? Are you going to have a left handed 2nd stage or need to use a hose looping around the back of your head? What is your gas planning to make sure you can share safely if you only have a long hose on one side? (Backmount: any number of lengths will work just fine for the backup depending on your build, and the DIR people have picked a standard length that suits most. 7 hose is standard on the right post, its a no brainer.)
Second stages: Are you going to use right angle adaptors, 45* adaptors, swivels, or no adaptor? Are you going to put them on the same bungee, separate bungee, or clip off? If you clip off, how are you going to handle an OOA situation? Are you going to breathe to thirds then switch? Breathe to 6ths, switch, breathe to thirds, switch, breathe another 6th, then turn? Breathe 200 then switch until you hit thirds? If you are in the middle of switching when an OOA happens, which second stage will you hand off? (backmount: dont use adaptors, they are an additional failure point. Put your backup on a bungee and put a clip on your primary. Breathe till thirds then turn, donate the primary. No brainer.)
Drysuit hose: Left or right tank? Shortest hose possible to go directly to the inflator, or are you going to loop it down?
Inflator: Run from the top or the bottom? If from the bottom, how are you going to run the dump valve string? Are you going to use the shortest hose possible to go directly to the inflator, or are you going to loop it down? If you use the shortest hose possible, what are you going to do if you have an issue that leaves your other tank unusable, leaving you without a drysuit inflator? Remember, not all exits are pure ascents. If you route from the bottom, are you able to manually inflate the wing easily?
SPGs: Do you run them out like bug antennae or wrapped up like stage bottles? (backmount: use the DIR length it works for most. Adjust to fit your body height as needed. Clip it off, no problems)
Bungees: What length is best? Will you use chokers? (backmount: leave the bungees in the truck. (sidemount is nice, the bungees hold your fins while you climb out) )
Rear Connection: Carabiners, bolt snaps, butterfly snaps, suicide clips, or black magic? If bolt snaps, are you prepared to deal with a bolt snap that wont open due to sand? Do you use a worm gear or a cam band? (backmount: use bolt snaps on everything)
Lights: Keep them on your shoulders? On the harness like BMers? In your pockets? Can you reach your pockets? Do you clip everything in your pockets off you let it all fall on the ground while you pull out your light? How will that backup mask feel with a boltsnap on the side? (backmount: put them on your harness and you are done. No brainer.)
I do think its easier to put your fins on in the water with sidemount. My first dive in backmount after months of sidemount diving, I thought I would never figure out how to get my fins on in the water. I also think its easier to scooter upside down and do barrel rolls in backmount. VIPs are easier on sidemount tanks. Reaching your pockets is easier in backmount. Shearing off the knob on the Lips while scootering is easier in backmount. Swimming on your side because you breathed one tank for too long is easier in sidemount. Walking on land is easier in backmount. Running on land is easier in backmount. Tripping on land sucks in backmount.
Second stage hoses: Long hose on one, long hose on both? If long hose on one, which side? Are you going to have a left handed 2nd stage or need to use a hose looping around the back of your head? What is your gas planning to make sure you can share safely if you only have a long hose on one side? (Backmount: any number of lengths will work just fine for the backup depending on your build, and the DIR people have picked a standard length that suits most. 7 hose is standard on the right post, its a no brainer.)
Second stages: Are you going to use right angle adaptors, 45* adaptors, swivels, or no adaptor? Are you going to put them on the same bungee, separate bungee, or clip off? If you clip off, how are you going to handle an OOA situation? Are you going to breathe to thirds then switch? Breathe to 6ths, switch, breathe to thirds, switch, breathe another 6th, then turn? Breathe 200 then switch until you hit thirds? If you are in the middle of switching when an OOA happens, which second stage will you hand off? (backmount: dont use adaptors, they are an additional failure point. Put your backup on a bungee and put a clip on your primary. Breathe till thirds then turn, donate the primary. No brainer.)
Drysuit hose: Left or right tank? Shortest hose possible to go directly to the inflator, or are you going to loop it down?
Inflator: Run from the top or the bottom? If from the bottom, how are you going to run the dump valve string? Are you going to use the shortest hose possible to go directly to the inflator, or are you going to loop it down? If you use the shortest hose possible, what are you going to do if you have an issue that leaves your other tank unusable, leaving you without a drysuit inflator? Remember, not all exits are pure ascents. If you route from the bottom, are you able to manually inflate the wing easily?
SPGs: Do you run them out like bug antennae or wrapped up like stage bottles? (backmount: use the DIR length it works for most. Adjust to fit your body height as needed. Clip it off, no problems)
Bungees: What length is best? Will you use chokers? (backmount: leave the bungees in the truck. (sidemount is nice, the bungees hold your fins while you climb out) )
Rear Connection: Carabiners, bolt snaps, butterfly snaps, suicide clips, or black magic? If bolt snaps, are you prepared to deal with a bolt snap that wont open due to sand? Do you use a worm gear or a cam band? (backmount: use bolt snaps on everything)
Lights: Keep them on your shoulders? On the harness like BMers? In your pockets? Can you reach your pockets? Do you clip everything in your pockets off you let it all fall on the ground while you pull out your light? How will that backup mask feel with a boltsnap on the side? (backmount: put them on your harness and you are done. No brainer.)
I do think its easier to put your fins on in the water with sidemount. My first dive in backmount after months of sidemount diving, I thought I would never figure out how to get my fins on in the water. I also think its easier to scooter upside down and do barrel rolls in backmount. VIPs are easier on sidemount tanks. Reaching your pockets is easier in backmount. Shearing off the knob on the Lips while scootering is easier in backmount. Swimming on your side because you breathed one tank for too long is easier in sidemount. Walking on land is easier in backmount. Running on land is easier in backmount. Tripping on land sucks in backmount.
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