Gear dependancy and additional training

[masterof0]

I've watched a LOT of divers start out with Jacket style BC's, then purchase BP/W's, and announce that BP/W's have fixed their trim.

The reality is that had they just moved weight around, they would have achieved similar results using the Jacket Style BC. So IMO it is more a matter of training. Rather than applying their training to adjust their weight, they purchase a solution to spread the weight out for them. Then they assume that it was bad equipment vs. poor practices on their behalf.

Certainly well designed gear is an advantage. However people are quick to blame gear and other factors for their mistakes rather than putting some thought or training into the mix to improve the problem. Case in point, the DM's in Cozumel all had ratty beat up Jacket style BC's. That did not prevent them from achieving perfect trim, launching SMB's from 80' without movement, or sipping air.

I am relatively new to diving and SB (<6 months) and I have spent a lot of time researching to try to find solutions to overcome some of the challenges I have underwater. In all fairness, if you look at 99% of the threads where divers such as myself are looking for help or advice, someone will jump on and say "get a bp/w it will solve your problem." It may very well have helped their problem, but no one is explaining why moving to a bp/w from a jacket or back-inflate "solved" their problem... There are a handful of people out there who not only offer a solution, but they explain why. I am not sure that most people who are making the recommendation to go to a bp/w understand why they are making that recommendation other than the fact that it worked for them.

I totally understand the premise behind the OP's post, and have to say that for the most part that I agree with what he is saying, but there is some truth that the proper equipment definitely makes diving easier, but it by no means makes the diver...

Training and experience are definitely the critical components (but the proper equipment helps)!

just my two cents....

 

[Web Monkey]

In all fairness, if you look at 99% of the threads where divers such as myself are looking for help or advice, someone will jump on and say "get a bp/w it will solve your problem." It may very well have helped their problem, but no one is explaining why moving to a bp/w from a jacket or back-inflate "solved" their problem...

It doesn't really solve anything, it just decreases the ability to have poor trim at the expense of the ability to be stable in any orientation.

Terry

 

[TSandM]

It doesn't really solve anything, it just decreases the ability to have poor trim at the expense of the ability to be stable in any orientation.

Terry, why do you say this? In a single tank rig, I can be stable in any position I like (although I haven't figured out how Uncle Pug swims around when he's perfectly head down yet). In doubles, I'll admit it's far more difficult, but that's because of the big inertia of the tanks. So I'll buy that doubles don't permit you as much freedom of position in the water as a single tank rig does, but I don't think using a backplate obligates you to a horizontal position. It just makes it easier, if that's the position in which you want to dive.

 

[gcbryan]

Keeping in mind this is posted in Basic Scuba Discussions, only friendly responses are requested.

It never ceases to amaze me that the mere mention of DIR/GUE ect raises the hackles of so many people. Many divers that post here (and other boards) are very passionate when comes to diving styles and their choices of gear. However, being a skilled diver is simply not gear dependant. Once you become a slave to your gear selection, will your overall skills begin to suffer?

• Buoyancy control is not gear dependant.
• Learning to navigate is not gear dependant.
• Staying off the bottom/reef is not gear dependant.
• Planning the dive and executing that plan is not gear dependant.
• Situational awareness and buddy practices are not gear dependant.
• Sharing air with a buddy anywhere but a confined space is not gear dependant.

What is gear dependency?
Specialized gear can make it easier and in some cases, like confined space diving, safer to do and practice the above list. The basic recreational open water/reef diver simply does not need to be outfitted to dive a cave or penetrate a wreck.

What the basic recreational diver does need are the skills to stay off the reef, off of the bottom and not silt the site up for others. The recreational diver needs to navigate, be a good buddy and ready to assist in an emergency.

Can a cave/wreck diver use their gear to dive a tropical reef, sure. Is it necessary, no. Is a fully geared technical diver safer than a skilled recreational diver in open water, no.


Additional training is good. However, training a recreational diver in the skills and the use of the associated gear configurations is fine but misses the point unless that diver plans to do cave/wreck diving. I would suggest that concerned recreational divers, the ones that want to learn more and improve their skills but have no plans to dive the Andrea Doria or some deep cave in Mexico or South Africa should seek out an instructor or mentor proficient in teaching those skills that are not gear dependant.

(I read some but not all of the multiple pages of posts for the record)

What exactly is your point or motivation for this post? I'm not clear.

Are you saying that a newer diver shouldn't take Fundies or the new Essentials coarse since they require certain gear purchases?

If so, I can at least understand that point of view.

Are you saying that anyone who is using a BP/W is using cave/wreck gear? In that case I don't think you have much of an argument.

I don't think anyone is saying that gear makes the diver. Some people want to dive with others where all their gear is standardized (not me) but I can't see an argument there if that's what they want to do.

I don't think many people are making most of the arguments that you made. I think some people are taking classes like Fundies mainly because rec agencies are doing such a poor job. You can also learn these skills from simply diving and improving your skills through experience and continuing to educate yourself (my case).

I'm just not clear what concern you had that you were trying to address with this thread. Can you clarify?

(PS)I do agree with you that people who say their buoyancy was terrible and so they purchased a BP/W and now everything is great are delusional.

 

[John_B]

15 handicap. Everyone knows titanium adds 5hp.

As an erstwhile 20 hcp golfer, I can tell you that titanium sometimes adds 5 to your hcp in the wrong direction. For some guys, 20 yards longer just puts their slice 20 yards deeper into the woods. Over 14 drive-able holes that can easily add 5 shots to your scorecard.

Back on topic:

Part of the thing with DIR is that they dive the same configuration all the time so it becomes automatic and any problems can be solved just about in their sleep.

No, not exactly. DIR says your training and configuration should build on the previous foundation so that no skill needs to be "unlearned" in later training. It doesn't say you need to sling stage bottles or a deco bottle or wear a drysuit for a reef dive. That's just internet dive talk.

 

[Web Monkey]

Terry, why do you say this? In a single tank rig, I can be stable in any position I like (although I haven't figured out how Uncle Pug swims around when he's perfectly head down yet). In doubles, I'll admit it's far more difficult, but that's because of the big inertia of the tanks. So I'll buy that doubles don't permit you as much freedom of position in the water as a single tank rig does, but I don't think using a backplate obligates you to a horizontal position. It just makes it easier, if that's the position in which you want to dive.

I have no idea how a single tank BP dives since I don't use one, but my doubles are much more stable horizontally and tend to tip me over if I tilt to far to one side or the other, while my jacket BC is stable anywhere.

YMMV

Terry

 

[Walter]

Dragging Octos, Dragging Consoles -- We've all seen them dragging across the sand or dragging across the reef -- and yes, doing damage to the reef (can you damage sand?). Here the gear choice IS relevant and unfortunately, is too often the result of ignorance and/or poor gear choice(s).

I gotta call BS on this one, Peter. That's not a problem with gear choice, that's a problem with skill in securing the gear.

45 degree (or higher) trim -- again, this is something we've all seen too many times on the reefs -- the "typical recreational diver" -- while some of this is technique, some of it is also poorly fitting, and poorly set up gear -- tanks too low, weights too low, etc. Does this lead to reef injury -- you bet -- both from the direct contact of the fins AND from the finning which is now pointed down AT the reef.

That's a result of overweighting, not weight placement.

 

[Peter Guy]

Walter -- for the most part, the issues I identified are that combination of gear badly set up/configured and lack of diver knowledge of how to do it better (not necessarily how to do it right however). I'll contend the GEAR is a part of the problem (that is, the choices made in what is made a part of the total gear setup) but is drastically compounded by the lack of knowledge (either lack of proper training or a disregard for such).

Gear does NOT a Diver Make -- however, SOME gear can help a diver be a "better" diver -- just as some gear will assist in making a diver a "worse" one.

Query -- If you rent a BC/Reg setup that does NOT have any means for attaching/securing the Octo and the Console, is the dragging Octo and Console a "gear" issue or a "skills" issue? But we all know that no LDS would rent gear like that, don't we?

BTW, I regretfully disagree with you regarding the effects of weight placement and trim -- if your weight is in the wrong place, you are almost certain to be out of trim, regardless of the amount of total weight. Placement AND total weight are important and each may well affect trim.

 

[Nemrod]

Divers who move through the water in the "45 degree" legs down trim have a variety of issues, most of them are unrelated to the BC/wing because I can certainly trim head down or head up without any BC/wing. They usually trim out legs down becaue they are over weighted and because they hand swim. Hand swimming almost always brings the upper body upward, combined with an ineffective kick and floppy fins you have a rototiller extraordinare. N

 

[Walter]

If you rent a BC/Reg setup that does NOT have any means for attaching/securing the Octo and the Console, is the dragging Octo and Console a "gear" issue or a "skills" issue?

Oh, now I see, a long hose wrapped around the neck with a bungied backup would solve that problem, so it must be a poor choice of gear. How silly of me. Of course, a $2 snorkel keeper would also eliminate the problem.

BTW, I regretfully disagree with you regarding the effects of weight placement and trim -- if your weight is in the wrong place, you are almost certain to be out of trim, regardless of the amount of total weight. Placement AND total weight are important and each may well affect trim.

If you are swimming at a 45 degree head up angle and are not overweighted, you are ascending. If you are acending just enough to compensate for sinking because you're overweighted, then you can actually travel horizontally without ascending.