gas switch: backgas? move bottles?

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Makhno

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I stumbled across this and wonder what all y'all have to say about it. I look back upon my training and wonder if all those bottle movements and unclippings-reclippings were necessary, or whether I could Keep It Simpler. I got it from here: 2nd gas switch « Tec Diving Indonesia

"2nd gas switch

There has been some debate among even experienced instructors at the T50 or TDI Extended Range level as to whether a diver should switch from the first deco gas to back gas before switching to the second deco gas. Following our philosophy of “learn it once and use it always,” we prefer to switch directly to the second deco gas as switching to back gas during decompression is problematic with regard to DCS risk on deeper trimix dives.


The switch procedure is all the same until it comes time to actually switch the regulators and route the deco hose. Once you have gone through the entire switch procedure and your teammates have confirmed your second deco gas, go ahead and remove the first deco reg with the palm of your left hand, pulling it up over your head and in front of you to the left. You may then route the second deco reg with your right hand around the back of your neck and into your mouth.


Failure to follow these simple steps commonly results in tangled deco hoses, a confused team, and a diver ending up wondering up which deco reg is which after trying to untangle them. All of this unnecessarily delays the team’s initiation of the 6m decompression.


Once the backup computer is updated (if one is used), go ahead and stow the first deco regulator under the top retaining band on its tank.


Whether to shift the top (21m) deco tank below the top one is another matter of debate. As the 6m gas is the last gas I will be breathing (airbreaks aside) until the end of decompression, and as the 21m gas is still my next most viable deco gas, I prefer to leave them. I see no reason to move them, especially if I am decompressing in the blue and don’t want to risk dropping the 21m bottle during the shuffle.


Furthermore, in dives which require 3 or more deco switches, we switch from the top tank to the bottom tank at the second switch. This switch is then followed by a shuffle involving the leash where the top tank is moved back and a new tank is moved into place under the current decompression tank in use. In no instance is a tank moved from the top to the bottom just for the sake of moving it from the top to bottom. It seems unnecessary to me."



Thoughts in response? Most of my diving involves a single cylinder and is within NDLs. Most of my technical diving involves only one deco gas. I haven't used two deco gases for more than a year. I haven't used a travel mix or third deco gas since my advanced trimix course.
 
Backgas between deco gases. The stop prior to a gas switch is a backgas break and gives you time to clean up the hose so you don't have a mess, but most importantly it gives you a break from high ppo2 before you switch to a 1.6 gas.

I noticed that the article includes things like switching gases based on position (a bad habit to get into) and talks about some "dcs risk" if you switch to back gas. Capital baloney.
 
Malarkey. Helium is a fast gas. I don't want to switch from a lower He content to a higher one and start ongassing again just so I can stow some hoses before switching again. I know that nothing terrible is going to happen for a few seconds but I just never saw the need.
 
Malarkey. Helium is a fast gas. I don't want to switch from a lower He content to a higher one and start ongassing again just so I can stow some hoses before switching again. I know that nothing terrible is going to happen for a few seconds but I just never saw the need.
You're seriously concerned about on gassing in the minute it takes to clean up your bottles between a 120ft deco gas and 70ft, or 70ft and 20ft?
 
Malarkey. Helium is a fast gas. I don't want to switch from a lower He content to a higher one and start ongassing again just so I can stow some hoses before switching again. I know that nothing terrible is going to happen for a few seconds but I just never saw the need.

Its pretty clear that you don't know what you're talking about.

The real risk isn't in DCS, its in o2 toxicity. The ONLY thing that's been proven to work time and time again against o2 toxicity is toggling off high ppo2 to low ppo2 gases. Helium being "fast" doesn't even come in to play. You're ascending. Off gassing. And you're offgassing no matter what gas you're breathing, otherwise backgas deco wouldn't work at all.
 
Malarkey. Helium is a fast gas.

Is it? How much faster than N?

Oops, didn't mean to pile on here. I wouldn't be too worried about this for the time it takes to stow a hose and switch to another gas. ICD is manageable.
 
Is it? How much faster than N?

Oops, didn't mean to pile on here. I wouldn't be too worried about this for the time it takes to stow a hose and switch to another gas. ICD is manageable.

2.5 times.
 
Helium being "fast" doesn't even come in to play. You're ascending. Off gassing. And you're offgassing no matter what gas you're breathing,...

It depend on the extent to which 'fast' helium has already off-gassed, if/when you switch back to bottom-mix on ascent. You could theoretically be on-gassing helium.

But, in principle, I agree - little/no risk of DCS in the context of the timescale needed for a gas-switch.
 
The ONLY thing that's been proven to work time and time again against o2 toxicity is toggling off high ppo2 to low ppo2 gases.

What is high? At a second switch, being on 50% at 6m, the PpO2 is 0.8. Is that high? Is a break relevant?
 
Helium is less soluble than nitrogen, btw. Comes into and out of solution faster but there is less of ot dissolved in said solution compared to nitrogen.

The ppo2 of 18% is like a .3 at 30ft. Quite a bit less than .9, which is what 50% is at 30ft where the gas break/ cleanup stop is.

Is is a break relevant? Well, since there are documented cases of people seizing below a cns of 100%, you're going to have to make that call for yourself. Id rather play it safe.
 
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