Garmin Descent MK2

[DeltaWardog]

Besides If you use it as a smart watch they have all the data that they want, similar to all the other smart watches and phones in everyone's pocket.

My understanding is that this is only true if you connect the watch with bluetooth to a mobile device with the Garmin Connect or Dive apps. The watch does not upload data to Garmin directly. I verified this by looking at my Garmin account after doing a couple dozen activities on the watch, and Garmin still didn't have any of my data available to display.

 

[waterone]

Must have been right after I put "fully functional" smart watch.

While I wish there was a way to opt out so companies can't track you and at the same time lose no features, you can't.

 

[Scuba-Lad]

My understanding is that this is only true if you connect the watch with bluetooth to a mobile device with the Garmin Connect or Dive apps. The watch does not upload data to Garmin directly. I verified this by looking at my Garmin account after doing a couple dozen activities on the watch, and Garmin still didn't have any of my data available to display.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. For me, Garmin taking all my data is a deal breaker. Pay a hefty price tag for Garmin to then (probably) sell data on to make even more money? Sounds like an even worse deal than Facebook, at least theirs is free If it in fact needs to be connected to the internet (Garmin) to function correctly this is a real negative.

Also, the chirping sound is still an issue on the transmitter for some people, even on the latest firmware?
I'm curious if you could simply use a 3rd party RF transmitter to mitigate this issue, since as I understand it the Garmin uses RF at first before hitting about 5 feet depth.

 

[stiebs]

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. For me, Garmin taking all my data is a deal breaker. Pay a hefty price tag for Garmin to then (probably) sell data on to make even more money? Sounds like an even worse deal than Facebook, at least theirs is free If it in fact needs to be connected to the internet (Garmin) to function correctly this is a real negative.

Also, the chirping sound is still an issue on the transmitter for some people, even on the latest firmware?

Garmin "taking" all your data is a deal breaker? Do you also not use any social media or media streaming services? Or Google, Apple or Microsoft software? Each one of these captures more data about you than Garmin does.

Garmin (and all *reputable* similar companies) are not actually interested in your personal data. In fact, your anonymised data is much more valuable to them. Not so much for diving, but for their fitness tracking, it is your anonymised data (exercise, heart rate, etc) that allows them to give you the dashboards that fitness freaks love.

Knowing that Garmin charges a premium price for their physical products gives me much more confidence that they aren't making up for R&D and production costs by selling data.

The Descent never *needs* to be connected to the internet. If you so choose, you can use the USB cable to connect it to your computer, and either download the raw data files, or use an app like Subsurface to import them offline.

 

[DeltaWardog]

Garmin "taking" all your data is a deal breaker?

Yes. And some of us go to great lengths to take our privacy back. Don't normalize what these companies are doing to the public. Facebook and Google, and to a lesser extent Microsoft and Apple, are making the world a worse place to live in with their data policies, among other things.

I spend a lot of time and money to make sure none of the companies you mentioned get anything more than garbage data from me. I realize this is beyond the technical reach of most people (it's hard as hell for me to be thorough with it, and I have been in the IT industry for 20+ years), and I have to do without certain conveniences, but it shouldn't be like that. Data privacy should be a right, not a privilege. And it's ridiculous that I have to pay $1800 for a dive computer setup and still be at the mercy of people selling my data. But that's the world we live in.

The only way it changes is if enough people fight back.

 

[DeltaWardog]

I'd be interested in hearing more about this.

The watch is not capable of uploading data directly to Garmin. If you never connect it to a mobile device via Bluetooth, it will never be able to upload your data. I believe it also has an option for wifi but I never turned on wifi for my watch. I don't think it uploads data via wifi anyway.

I simply record the stats from the watch's dive log onto my paper log book pages. I'm also going to start using Subsurface which supports the mk2i, but haven't done so yet.

As for the chirping, it was problematic for me when the transmitter was mounted on the regulator (and therefore close to my head/ears), but installing a short HP hose and moving the transmitter down to the side of my BCD solved that completely. The sonar chirp has a VERY short range. I noticed that when my head was tilted forward the volume was significantly lower, so I tried the short HP hose and the sound was completely gone after that.

 

[stiebs]

Yes. And some of us go to great lengths to take our privacy back. Don't normalize what these companies are doing to the public. Facebook and Google, and to a lesser extent Microsoft and Apple, are making the world a worse place to live in with their data policies, among other things.

I spend a lot of time and money to make sure none of the companies you mentioned get anything more than garbage data from me. I realize this is beyond the technical reach of most people (it's hard as hell for me to be thorough with it, and I have been in the IT industry for 20+ years), and I have to do without certain conveniences, but it shouldn't be like that. Data privacy should be a right, not a privilege. And it's ridiculous that I have to pay $1800 for a dive computer setup and still be at the mercy of people selling my data. But that's the world we live in.

The only way it changes is if enough people fight back.

I've been in the IT industry for 25+ years, and currently work as a consultant specialising in data, advanced analytics and AI.

I work every day with companies that have inordinate amounts of customer data. And they almost exclusively don't really care who you are. Most of time it is to understand their customer base as a whole, and help them make decisions on what the right place to concentrate further invest is for the best return.

Even for the ones that want to use your data to market back to you, its more often than not lumping you into demographics or customer segments with anywhere from 1,000 to 100,000 other customers with similar data patterns.

In an overly optimistic world, if my usage data, along with that of heaps of other data helps Garmin release better firmware, or make further improvements on later models, that's the best outcome. Realistically, the diving industry, and Garmin's small niche window into it don't warrant the effort on their behalf.

You're entitled to your educated and informed view, and I'm entitled to mine.

 

[Scuba-Lad]

Garmin "taking" all your data is a deal breaker? Do you also not use any social media or media streaming services? Or Google, Apple or Microsoft software? Each one of these captures more data about you than Garmin does.

Garmin (and all *reputable* similar companies) are not actually interested in your personal data. In fact, your anonymised data is much more valuable to them. Not so much for diving, but for their fitness tracking, it is your anonymised data (exercise, heart rate, etc) that allows them to give you the dashboards that fitness freaks love.

Knowing that Garmin charges a premium price for their physical products gives me much more confidence that they aren't making up for R&D and production costs by selling data.

The Descent never *needs* to be connected to the internet. If you so choose, you can use the USB cable to connect it to your computer, and either download the raw data files, or use an app like Subsurface to import them offline.

I'd rather this not turn into a data protection / GDPR / Privacy topic, but in answer to your questions above, yes I mostly use (if I use them) the services you mentioned in a very anonymous way. I don't have any music streaming services, don't have any social media other than Facebook which I monitor very closely in terms of what data they have on me. Same with browsers. Granted this is becoming more difficult not to share data these days but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to try, and have their opinions.
I've also worked in IT for around 15 years in England - I got to see (and advise) how companies store customer data, amongst my other areas of expertise. Some of the things (including breaches) I saw would scare most people, and I quickly learned that any "for profit" business is usually not honest - by very nature of profit being the objective. Smaller companies seemed to be a little more compliant. I'd be interested to hear your experiences - outside of this topic so we don't get bogged down.

Back to the Garmin, I'd be cool with it if the data sharing was optional, but the fact that a lot of these "fitness watch companies" force you to use their cloud service is something I don't like. I'd be much more comfortable with an "opt out" approach where by unless I untick an option, data will be shared with (Garmin for example) for R&D purposes. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I see being discussed here, this option does not exist for Garmin? I'm not slamming Garmin by the way, just asking questions up front based on other users experiences in order for me to make an informed choice.

The chirping being resolved by moving the transmitter away is re-assuring. I'd planned not to have it near my head anyway - and I wonder if the noise is related to the sonar it's self or perhaps some kind of electrical noise. Still - it would be great to have the option to use a standard RF transmitter.

 

[waterone]

If it in fact needs to be connected to the internet (Garmin) to function correctly this is a real negative.

No one said anything about it needing to connect to Garmin to function correctly. It will function great as an above average smart watch with full dive functionality. Diving is only impacted if you want to use the Garmin dive app.

I personally think it isnt as value packed if you do not use it as a full smart watch.

Also, the chirping sound is still an issue on the transmitter for some people, even on the latest firmware?

Chirping will always be noticeable by some people. Low is not loud enough to make me want to move it, nor do I want extra hoses if I do not have to have them.

I'm curious if you could simply use a 3rd party RF transmitter to mitigate this issue, since as I understand it the Garmin uses RF at first before hitting about 5 feet depth.

If you do not want to use their proprietary tx that chirps (sonar), buy a PPS system.

When I purchased the mk2i there was no mention of a chirp. At least you can use this knowledge of a chirp along with your data concerns to choose a different product if you want.

Personally I like the functionality of this watch and all upgrades from my mk1 so much that I'm most likely in for v3. Besides, I beat on my watches and it would be nice to get a shiny new one by the time it drops.

 

[Filipe Agrati]

Hey guys. Do you know if the mk2 going to be on black Friday discount anywhere?