G250 Graphite vs HOG Adjustable 2nd
- Thread starter Slamfire
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No they are not. While the parts may LOOK similar there are significant differences in materials, case geometry, and other engineering aspects that make the regs quite different. The schematic posted is not of a HOG second stage.
R
redacted
Guest
why would I? I make them available to dealers and everybody that takes the tech course (any level, shop, consumer or instructor).
My policy has always been to encourage people to get training and mentoring in service before doing it. I in fact really want tech divers to get trained to service their gear, it makes better divers, however just posting everything encourages people to skip the whole training/mentoring thing....
My policy has always been to encourage people to get training and mentoring in service before doing it. I in fact really want tech divers to get trained to service their gear, it makes better divers, however just posting everything encourages people to skip the whole training/mentoring thing....
R
redacted
Guest
It seemed like you (EDGE/HOG) were trying to make an attempt to separate your products from the herd. It must have been my misperception. I guess I was wrong.
G250 schematics (and many others from major manufacturers) are widely available online (although not with the manufacturer's blessings).
it isn't that you are wrong it just that the message is getting skewed. I'm pretty sure you agree that training and/or mentoring is pretty darn important for learning to wrench on this stuff. It isn't hard but esp. for people that do it infrequently they need to learn properly...
what do you suggest? I've held endless debates with myself over this, it would be nice to hear your views.
what do you suggest? I've held endless debates with myself over this, it would be nice to hear your views.
R
redacted
Guest
Yes, knowledge and skills (training) are important along with tools and parts. But there are many ways to get perfectly adequate training and then safely extend your expertise well beyond what can be acquired in a short, manufacturer training course. I had few options and ended up reading (many times) the manuals by Harlow and Wolfinger. I don't service that many regs but I do believe one may be better off doing something with good understanding only once a year than with doing something every day that is just not understood. I have run into too many professional techs who could instal a kit but could not troubleshoot a relatively simple problem without a telephone connection to the manufacturer service center. I have spent a day with a budding DIYers a number of times, and it was not long before they were able to teach me things.
It is my impression the Edge/HOG parts are not difficult to come by from a number of sources. It just seems counterproductive (maybe even alienating) to have parts more availabile than documentation. While it would be reassuring to see both of those things coming out the front door rather than the back door as it is with most other manufacturers; times are changing and that, I'm sure, will also change with time.
I have experienced new, online dive shops that claimed they would support their products with parts and documentation only to chip away at and eventually withdraw that support as they became larger and more successful.
I went to the time and effort to work with TDI and create and get past the lawyers a Repair class for tech divers to teach on their own gear. i have no plans to move away from that, in fact at DEMA asked the new instructor class if they felt i should expand it to include EDGE and recreational (to which no was the answer)
The parts are available because while I recommend that my dealers they sell parts to qualified people with training, I don't tell them who they can or cant sell them to.
I am however going to be putting the schematic in futuire service kits, that was already decided at DEMA as well. It seems to me that it would be usefull at that point....
I actually used schematics to make table matts I give away... go figure
The parts are available because while I recommend that my dealers they sell parts to qualified people with training, I don't tell them who they can or cant sell them to.
I am however going to be putting the schematic in futuire service kits, that was already decided at DEMA as well. It seems to me that it would be usefull at that point....
I actually used schematics to make table matts I give away... go figure
OP
Slamfire
Contributor
Glasnost. It is good. Sergey Brin (Google co-founder) says, "knowledge is always good, and certainly always better than ignorance."
I think Hog regs are going to perform successfully in the market and keep on growing. I also think that an important ingredient of that success is the different attitude that the brand has taken towards its customers. It is not condescending, meaning that it doesn't insult the users intellect by trying to say "it's life sustaining equipment that's why you should pay $xxx for this fairly simple hunk of brass." Nor has it said, "you are not worthy to service your own regs, you should leave that to professionals." I do find that attitude insulting. Hog even goes as far as saying, we use trivalent chrome which is more expensive and environmental and yet are able to provide quality products at approx 1/3 the cost. It's out in the open. There is no crude attempt to strip me out of my bucks with insulting statements to my intelligence.
I think that is in part what awap was trying to say when mentioning about separating edge/hog from the herd. Likewise, releasing schematics would be an action more consistent with that openness. Trying to keep it closed points towards the rest of the herd.
The schematics are going to be out in the open eventually, with or without your collaboration. The risk of them coming up without your collaboration is only going to grow as Hog grows more popular. More hands are going to have them and somebody will just leak them out. You can choose to try to fight that outcome and perhaps get some negativity in the process, or continue consistently with the original Hog "Glasnost" policy. ScubaPro tried and keeps on trying to keep schematics away...
In this specific case, I would like to see a Hog schematic to compare and contrast with a G250. I would like to know about it's design strenghts and weaknesses. I do not have a Hog to take apart myself right now. Depending on my conclusions from that analysis I may end up buying one. In my particular situation, the schematic would be a more compelling sales tool than a marketing brochure full of fluff.
how do i post a pdf in a forum?
Seriously, never had to before
Oh...by the way PLEASE don't hold your breath waiting for a marketing brochure full of fluff...seriously.
Seriously, never had to before
Oh...by the way PLEASE don't hold your breath waiting for a marketing brochure full of fluff...seriously.
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