Future of DiveShops?

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We can sit here all day and be arm chair philosophers all we want, but who really knows?
My LDS just recently changed ownership, the GM bought the business from the old owner and totally revamped the shop and business model.
The new owner saw what the trend was and also saw that the old model wasn't working, so he made several changes. He looked through the receipts and saw that 50% of the store sales were non scuba diving related (and this is a dedicated scuba LDS), meaning that many other people were coming in like paint ballers, vacation snorkellers, kayakers, surfers, rafters, and other water sports activities. Also people after clothing that would be used for activities other than diving.
So with this information the new owner expanded the store to include all those other activities including a surf shop with a line of nice surf boards, kayaks, and an expanded watersports pro shop with all kinds of various things. His idea is to cater to everything watersports and do it better than anybody else in town.
He also changed the name appropriately so people glancing down from the freeway would see the sign saying "Water Sports" after the store name.
I haven't been in there since the opening yet, but as far as I know he's doing better than ever.

The other problem I see is how manufacturers price their goods with volume pricing discounts. An LDS will never be able to sell near the volume of goods of an internet seller, but the internet sellers get huge discounts on volume. This is good for the manufacturer in the here and now but undermines the small seller because they can't compete. I think tier pricing and minimum sales requirements are ill fated. When I was an airbrush paint color rep and tester, the owner of the campany (Vince) came out with a new line of auto color that the big internet sellers immediately wanted in volume at rediculous discounts. I was sitting right there at the SEMA show in Las Vegas when Vince told a few reps (putting it politely) to beat it. His idea was that the product in the long run would do much better placed in as many small local auto body supply stores and fine art shops and be seen by more people than having a few big behemoth internet sellers price cutting the small guy out of business. Vince refused to sell in volume discount and he told them "If you drop your margin below MSRP I won't sell to you". Not only that but the product was brand new so production wasn't up to full swing yet and there wasn't a lot of volume at that time.
The internet sellers were furious to start and initially refused to carry it, which had no affect on Vince. They finally caved in and started carrying it realizing that their bluff didn't work. Popularity had risen very fast because of local exposure to the end user. I was the guy going to all the mom and pop supply stores and doing demos introducing the product all over the west coast. If internet sellers had gotten the product first popularity would have risen slow because not all painters hang out on the internet, in fact very few do, so a cheap price would have been moot.

To apply this to diving, I could see manufacturers of scuba gear doing a lot more to support the small dive shop.
If internet pricing was the same as LDS pricing, I would just buy everything at the LDS. The only savings at that point buying from the internet would be possibly sales tax if it was purchased out of state and gas to drive to the dive shop.
At that point the price would be the price and it wouldn't matter.
Another way to look at it is the LDS price is the real price and the internet price is them giving it away.
But most people see the internet price and think it's the real price and the LDS is ripping them off.
I think it some of both.
I also think there are too many internet stores now and them giving stuff away isn't sustainable, but infortunately not after a lot of damage has been done to the LDS.
 
Not correct according to: 49 CFR Part 180, Appendix C to Part 180 - Eddy Current Examination With Visual Inspection for DOT 3AL Cylinders Manufactured of Aluminum Alloy 6351-T6 | LII / Legal Information Institute

Do you have another reference?

Why is it a good idea for LDS? Got any data? I suspect it is just another income stream (ore unnecessary business expense).

I specifically use the word "should". All AL tanks should be inspected with an eddy current machine. We don't need to discuss law, because by law VIPs are only required at hydro. By industry standard/mutual agreement it is once a year. It's my opinion that if you are going to VIP a tank, you should eddy current test it. If you agree with the philosophy of detecting cracks early through annual inspection I really don't know how you could disagree with eddy testing annually as well. Both are designed to detect cracks before they become an issue.
 
I specifically use the word "should". All AL tanks should be inspected with an eddy current machine. We don't need to discuss law, because by law VIPs are only required at hydro. By industry standard/mutual agreement it is once a year. It's my opinion that if you are going to VIP a tank, you should eddy current test it. If you agree with the philosophy of detecting cracks early through annual inspection I really don't know how you could disagree with eddy testing annually as well. Both are designed to detect cracks before they become an issue.

Are you saying the "Industry Standard" that has dive shops requiring an annual VIS also requires that they perform a VE test as part of that inspection for all Aluminum tanks? If so, it would seem to me that quite a few, perhaps most shops, are inviting liability problems as they do not have such equipment. They simply do it the old way with a visual inspection. Also, why would they treat new aluminum tanks any different than steel tanks? I don't believe there is any data to suggest either has any problem with neck cracks.

I am afraid that only reason for adding VE tests to LDS visual inspections of steel and modern aluminum tanks is to amortize the cost of VE test equipment purchased by a minority of LDSs.

Whether the word should or must is used is really not important when there is no factually based rational for performing (and charging for) such testing.

---------- Post added November 13th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ----------

S My first post to this thread was really all about supporting a local business in your community that does a good job.

Would that be the same local business that sells goods that are produced overseas even when they could be selling goods "Made in America".

It is not really about where the money goes as much as how much money is going. "Supporting a local business" is simply a ruse to get customers to buy overpriced, made in Taiwan, scuba gear imported by a US distributor at somewhat to significantly higher prices. A small differences may be no big deal but I have seen differences in the range of 100% higher priced.
 
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Are you saying the "Industry Standard" that has dive shops requiring an annual VIS also requires that they perform a VE test as part of that inspection for all Aluminum tanks? If so, it would seem to me that quite a few, perhaps most shops, are inviting liability problems as they do not have such equipment. They simply do it the old way with a visual inspection. Also, why would they treat new aluminum tanks any different than steel tanks? I don't believe there is any data to suggest either has any problem with neck cracks.

I am afraid that only reason for adding VE tests to LDS visual inspections of steel and modern aluminum tanks is to amortize the cost of VE test equipment purchased by a minority of LDSs.

Whether the word should or must is used is really not important when there is no factually based rational for performing (and charging for) such testing.

You're free to believe that they provide no value, unless you're vizing my tanks...AL cracks at lower stresses than steel. I don't choose to believe that everything is a conspiracy to charge more money.
 
Steel tanks do not get sustained load cracking in the threads like some of the older aluminum cylinders did. Some older cylinders were built with a special permit 3163 alloy which had higher lead concentrations than current 6161 alloy. I am not afraid to fill an older 3163 alloy if it has a current eddy test. The current 6161 allow does not suffer from the same problems the 3163 alloy did and therefore do not need the eddy test. At least that is what PSI/PCI teaches. So that is what we go by. Some of the older cylinders were built with the current 6161 alloy and thus do not need the eddy test either! Tank age shouldn't automatically mean it is unsafe. A tank constantly over filled throughout a 10 year service life is much more scary to me filling it. But it is not worth buying an older aluminum tank if it is a 3163 alloy because you really should have it eddy tested once a year, it is the only way to ensure load cracks are not forming. With those tanks it is really only a matter of time due to the larger lead molecules in the metal's structure.
 
You're free to believe that they provide no value, unless you're vizing my tanks...AL cracks at lower stresses than steel. I don't choose to believe that everything is a conspiracy to charge more money.

So, it is your opinion that the DOT is using different safety standards for steel tanks than they are using for modern aluminum tanks; and that steel tanks are safer by design???
 
So, it is your opinion that the DOT is using different safety standards for steel tanks than they are using for modern aluminum tanks; and that steel tanks are safer by design???

I don't know how else to put it, but the DOT doesn't come into play in this conversation. The DOT requires VIP at hydro only. I can say that I believe to do the best job possible, AL tanks should be eddy current tested. Does that mean that you can't prevent some cracks from slipping by with your eyes only? No. It means that you will find more of them with an eddy current machine. Jeez.
 
My LDS just recently changed ownership, the GM bought the business from the old owner and totally revamped the shop and business model.The new owner saw what the trend was and also saw that the old model wasn't working, so he made several changes. He looked through the receipts and saw that 50% of the store sales were non scuba diving related (and this is a dedicated scuba LDS), meaning that many other people were coming in like paint ballers, vacation snorkellers, kayakers, surfers, rafters, and other water sports activities. Also people after clothing that would be used for activities other than diving.
So with this information the new owner expanded the store to include all those other activities including a surf shop with a line of nice surf boards, kayaks, and an expanded watersports pro shop with all kinds of various things. His idea is to cater to everything watersports and do it better than anybody else in town.

A couple of summers ago I was vacationing in Rockport, TX. I brought my equipment and did some diving in Lake Travis. I went to Copeland's dive shop in Corpus Christi hoping to get on a charter and dive the gulf. The guy I talked to said they stopped doing charters years ago when the oil platforms were cut down and removed. He said the locals go to Lake Travis, where they do open water instruction, or dive in a jetty near the city. After hearing about all the perils of diving in the jetty (fishing line, rocks, ship traffic, etc.) I decided not to dive there. The entrance to the store opens up into the dive shop proper and it seemed pretty well stocked and of modest size. There was a door which opened up into a much bigger room which contained of all things, snow skiing equipment and apparel. Yeah, you read that right -- SNOW skiing. After getting over my initial shock I said somewhat sarcastically, "I bet you get a lot of business selling this stuff." He said it sells better than the water sport equipment from a location where any snow you're likely to see is on some kid's snow cone. He went on to say that their typical clients are repeat vacationers to ski resorts who want their own equipment. Copeland's home page shows a picture of their storefront complete with dive flags and a large sign reading "Dive and Ski" although what kind of skiing is not mentioned. Their claim to fame is they are Texas's oldest dive shop and the southernmost ski chalet [in the USA].
 
If internet pricing was the same as LDS pricing, I would just buy everything at the LDS. The only savings at that point buying from the internet would be possibly sales tax if it was purchased out of state and gas to drive to the dive shop.

Most people don't realize it, but the purchaser who buys anything on the internet still owes a "use tax" on their internet purchases, which is equal to the sales tax they would have paid if they purchased the item in their state. For instance in California:

You must pay California use tax when you purchase out-of-state items by telephone, Internet, mail, or in person and both of the following apply:

  • The seller does not collect California sales or use tax.
  • You use, give away, store, or consume the item in this state.

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/usetax.shtml

Now, of course everyone will say "yeah, but I never pay that" which is fine. Just know that if that's you, when you buy gear online you're not only saving money, but committing a crime!

YIKES!
 
Now, of course everyone will say "yeah, but I never pay that" which is fine. Just know that if that's you, when you buy gear online you're not only saving money, but committing a crime!

YIKES!

So, if you have your scuba tank filled with EAN in FL for $15 and bring a third of it back to NJ, how much tax do you pay NJ?

Maybe they need a tax collection booth as folks return from shopping trips to DE. That will happen right after they start giving tickets for 70 mph on the turnpike.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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