Future of DiveShops?

[dumpsterDiver]

From an owner's point of view.... WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU? If you do not find and support a shop who you like, where are you going to go to....

1. Have a few beers with other people who like diving to share stories around the shop pool? (FOR FREE we give out complementary beers)
2. Have an employee meet you at the shop at 10pm because you found out your bcd hose is torn and need a new one; the day before you leave on a trip? (After calling the owner's personal cell phone)
3.Give you a couple free rental tanks cause you bought gear from the shop?
4.Let you try some gear our in the pool for fit and function before you buy it?
5.teach your future girlfriend or boyfriend to dive after you break up with the one you learned with if you never give them any of your business?
6. fix that cheap used POS you bought used, then found out everything hissed and leaked air for a fair price? If the only money they make is off service it is soon to go up.
7. Bring your friends to try scuba for free since you took class from them in the first place.
8. Meet just you for a one on one specialty class cause they are nice like that and want to make you happy if you have spent $0 with them.
9. Plan a kick ass awesome group trip for your first couple ocean dives when you are still a newbie?
10. Show you how to use that fancy camera set up you have no clue about?
11. FILL AIR?
12. Give you personal one on one attention when you just don't understand something?
13. Fit a wet suit?
14. Rent gear for the weekend?
15. Support your local community's economy?

So many of the posters here are so bitter. Why do you expect a dive business to make absolutely NO money off of anything? We are a business just like every other industry. We give our customers free access to our pool if they are our customer. We let them hang out at our shop whenever they want. We come up here when we are closed if we get a cell phone call. We are open 7 days a week. We will teach a class with just one person in it. We do not gouge our customers on prices. We fix gear at fair prices. We don't make our students buy anything for class! This is our full time job we have spent a lot of time and money to be a professional at what we do. And offer great service and training as well.

So frankly some of you need to grow up and stop hating a business for trying to be profitable. It is not fair for to be so hateful that a new gear set might make the owner a little money. As for the used gear crowd I get it you want to save some money who doesn't? But if you ever just asked the owner to make you a great deal you might only end up spending $100 more than all used.... just think about it.

And who wants to take class from a guy in his basement that teaches one class a year in his free time anyway? Who wants to take a class from a joke shop that only teaches 25 people a year? If you haven't found a good shop, find one and support them!

Your website says a vip is how much? It is much less labor and requires less capital investment than rotating two tires on a car.

Seems excessive to me to spin a valve on and off and should take less than 3 - 5 minutes if you are talking with the customer..

 

[ktomlinson]

From an owner's point of view.... WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU? If you do not find and support a shop who you like, where are you going to go to....

1. Have a few beers with other people who like diving to share stories around the shop pool? (FOR FREE we give out complementary beers)
2. Have an employee meet you at the shop at 10pm because you found out your bcd hose is torn and need a new one; the day before you leave on a trip? (After calling the owner's personal cell phone)
3.Give you a couple free rental tanks cause you bought gear from the shop?
4.Let you try some gear our in the pool for fit and function before you buy it?
5.teach your future girlfriend or boyfriend to dive after you break up with the one you learned with if you never give them any of your business?
6. fix that cheap used POS you bought used, then found out everything hissed and leaked air for a fair price? If the only money they make is off service it is soon to go up.
7. Bring your friends to try scuba for free since you took class from them in the first place.
8. Meet just you for a one on one specialty class cause they are nice like that and want to make you happy if you have spent $0 with them.
9. Plan a kick ass awesome group trip for your first couple ocean dives when you are still a newbie?
10. Show you how to use that fancy camera set up you have no clue about?
11. FILL AIR?
12. Give you personal one on one attention when you just don't understand something?
13. Fit a wet suit?
14. Rent gear for the weekend?
15. Support your local community's economy?

So many of the posters here are so bitter. Why do you expect a dive business to make absolutely NO money off of anything? We are a business just like every other industry. We give our customers free access to our pool if they are our customer. We let them hang out at our shop whenever they want. We come up here when we are closed if we get a cell phone call. We are open 7 days a week. We will teach a class with just one person in it. We do not gouge our customers on prices. We fix gear at fair prices. We don't make our students buy anything for class! This is our full time job we have spent a lot of time and money to be a professional at what we do. And offer great service and training as well.

So frankly some of you need to grow up and stop hating a business for trying to be profitable. It is not fair for to be so hateful that a new gear set might make the owner a little money. As for the used gear crowd I get it you want to save some money who doesn't? But if you ever just asked the owner to make you a great deal you might only end up spending $100 more than all used.... just think about it.

And who wants to take class from a guy in his basement that teaches one class a year in his free time anyway? Who wants to take a class from a joke shop that only teaches 25 people a year? If you haven't found a good shop, find one and support them!

You're saying that you give beer away to people that hang around your shop? That's pretty weird. It's a SCUBA shop, not a bar. There's a lot to say about your post, but I'll keep it short and focus on the part about the independent instructors and low volume shops. Are you trying to tell me that quantity equals quality? You run 500 people a year through your shop, so you must be a better teacher than someone that teaches 25 people a year? Not my experience. In my experience, the independent instructors I've taken courses from have done a much better job than some bro churning them out left and right.

 

[ScubaBros]

We do provide all gear for open water training. So for $335, a new student would not have to buy any other gear to complete an OW class. This winter special is just intended to save someone some money so they can put that towards some personal gear of their choice. Otherwise they are more than welcome to pay us $335 and nothing more. Also, we do sell the parts for those regs.

---------- Post added November 12th, 2014 at 06:36 PM ----------

Yeah that is what I am saying. If someone who is a customer/friend wants to have a beer with us outside of class... why not? The dive industry is about fun and some people like to have a beer or two and talk about their last trip, whats wrong with that? Now as for the VIP not worth 15 bucks to do a proper inspection?(as noted on the website that includes the fill) If all you are doing is looking inside an empty tank, then you are not properly checking your cylinder. It is a little more involved. My PCI inspector #is 26706 what is yours? By the way Scubabros comes from my brother and I owning our own business. We are also a little offended by you accusing us of turning out students. Busy=turning out bad divers...I don't think so. We train so many divers every year because we don't bull**** people and teach them properly.

 

[RJP]

From an owner's point of view.... WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU? If you do not find and support a shop who you like, where are you going to go?

I largely agree with most of what you're saying... with the exception of the above sentiment. The onus is on the shop "to find and support" its customers. If the customer likes the shop, they will reciprocate by spending money at your store.

The shop exists for the customers. The customers have no mandate to support your shop or any shop for that matter.

Sure, there's a handful of divers who are hardcore and their lives would be shattered if every dive shop in a driveable distance from them folded. But do yourself a favor and pull up your customer list and run your finger down the printout. For every single customer on the list ask yourself if THEIR lives would genuinely be significantly, negatively impacted if your shop went away tomorrow. 10%? 15% tops? The rest of the people on the list? If every dive shop went of business "where are they going to go?" They'd go bowling, cycling, golfing, hiking, whatever. They will simply go on about their lives. It's just diving, man.

Now look at the same list of customers... and ask yourself if YOUR life would genuinely be significantly, negatively impacted if every one of THEM went away tomorrow.

If they went away... "where are you going to go?"

Puts a different perspective on who needs to support whom, no?

And what of the potential new customer, who is not yet a diver? They haven't even thought of it yet. How will their life change if you go out of business? Not one iota. (Or maybe for the better, if a good Thai restaurant moves into your space.) Are you suggesting that those people need "to find and support a shop" now... so that that if they decide in a year they want to learn to dive you'll still be there?

 

[ktomlinson]

Personally, I think your VIP price is fair. A Visual Plus machine is expensive, and it does take a few minutes to do a good job, document the work, and apply a decal, so $20-$25 sounds like a fair rate to me.

I didn't say you did a bad job. You said that someone that teaches out of their basement, or a shop certifying 25 divers a year was a joke and questioned why anyone would want to learn from them. To me that sounds like you are saying that to be good at training you need to do it in bulk. What I said was that in my experience the best instruction I've had has been from independent instructors. I am an independent instructor. I've trained under two shops and a handful of independent instructors. You know the difference? The difference is that every one of the independent people I have trained under (and hopefully my students see this in me) still have a passion for diving. As for the shops, in one case (OW) the person owned and operated dive shops for 40+ years, but still loved it and it showed. The other shop has been running for close to 20 years, they got the job done, but they see instructing as a job, and that showed.

I'm glad you treat your customers right, and hope you have a long and successful business. Your prices seem fair, and cutting someone a break when they buy gear from you sounds like a reasonable thing to do. There's nothing wrong with drinking a beer, if that floats your boat. I removed the link I posted earlier, I assumed with the beer reference and the name that it was appropriate, but I was wrong.

Provide value and people will pay you for it. If you have competition from independent instructors, that's OK. They are bringing people into the sport, and I think you may be surprised and the persistency of the divers they train. As an independent instructor, I send my students to the local dive shop to buy boots,fins and a mask. The shop has fair prices on that stuff, and has inventory the students can try on. I make sure to tell my students that its a d**k move to try on something in a shop and then order it online. I do tell them about online options, but also that it can be a PITA since it is their first time buying and fitting gear. Figure out something you can do that independent instructors don't do, and capitalize on that.

In my professional career I train people to not disparage the competition. It doesn't help our position and will hurt us in the long run by disparaging the entire industry. All boats rise and fall with the tide.

 

[carlito35]

From an owner's point of view.... WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU? If you do not find and support a shop who you like, where are you going to go to....

1. Have a few beers with other people who like diving to share stories around the shop pool? (FOR FREE we give out complementary beers)
2. Have an employee meet you at the shop at 10pm because you found out your bcd hose is torn and need a new one; the day before you leave on a trip? (After calling the owner's personal cell phone)
3.Give you a couple free rental tanks cause you bought gear from the shop?
4.Let you try some gear our in the pool for fit and function before you buy it?
5.teach your future girlfriend or boyfriend to dive after you break up with the one you learned with if you never give them any of your business?
6. fix that cheap used POS you bought used, then found out everything hissed and leaked air for a fair price? If the only money they make is off service it is soon to go up.
7. Bring your friends to try scuba for free since you took class from them in the first place.
8. Meet just you for a one on one specialty class cause they are nice like that and want to make you happy if you have spent $0 with them.
9. Plan a kick ass awesome group trip for your first couple ocean dives when you are still a newbie?
10. Show you how to use that fancy camera set up you have no clue about?
11. FILL AIR?
12. Give you personal one on one attention when you just don't understand something?
13. Fit a wet suit?
14. Rent gear for the weekend?
15. Support your local community's economy?

So many of the posters here are so bitter. Why do you expect a dive business to make absolutely NO money off of anything? We are a business just like every other industry. We give our customers free access to our pool if they are our customer. We let them hang out at our shop whenever they want. We come up here when we are closed if we get a cell phone call. We are open 7 days a week. We will teach a class with just one person in it. We do not gouge our customers on prices. We fix gear at fair prices. We don't make our students buy anything for class! This is our full time job we have spent a lot of time and money to be a professional at what we do. And offer great service and training as well.

So frankly some of you need to grow up and stop hating a business for trying to be profitable. It is not fair for to be so hateful that a new gear set might make the owner a little money. As for the used gear crowd I get it you want to save some money who doesn't? But if you ever just asked the owner to make you a great deal you might only end up spending $100 more than all used.... just think about it.

And who wants to take class from a guy in his basement that teaches one class a year in his free time anyway? Who wants to take a class from a joke shop that only teaches 25 people a year? If you haven't found a good shop, find one and support them!

Mike's comments are confrontational and enthusiastic but they truly are a great local dive shop who have helped me many times and certainly much, much better than the other three dive shops in Oklahoma City I have used. Great guys, great trainers, and yes free beer) great perk though I don't drink...

 

[drrich2]

From an owner's point of view.... WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU? If you do not find and support a shop who you like, where are you going to go to....

And who wants to take class from a guy in his basement that teaches one class a year in his free time anyway? Who wants to take a class from a joke shop that only teaches 25 people a year? If you haven't found a good shop, find one and support them!

RJP already answered this. From my perspective:

1.) Air fills are a big deal if there is local diving & people use it. Conversely, if there is & they do, there's probably more than one dive shop around.

2.) From the customer's perspective, if you offer a product for $110, and your competitor offers the same thing shipped to his door free for $85, and he doesn't need to try it on 1st, getting his business is going to take you establishing a relationship with him, engaging him, persuading him to value your relationship enough to invest more in it.

3.) I think often the issue is not 'hating' the LDS, or not believing the owner & staff should make a living wage or stay solvent. In fact, often these issues don't even enter the customer's mind.

Think back to the last time you bought a new car. If you're like me, maybe you bought last year's model, with a big rebate, cheapest you could. Did you wonder about whether the dealership was making a fair profit? Were you concerned about whether the car salesman would be in business in 4 or 5 years?

I value the LDS. Thing is, oddly enough, for some gear it is more convenient for me to order online. Let's say I want, oh, say, a Liquivision Lynx dive computer with transmitter. And I'm convinced enough about that I don't need to play with it at the shop; say I've read enough reviews on ScubaBoard & elsewhere I'm confident I want the thing. I can order it online & have it in the next few days. Or, I can plan to drop by the dive shop...but that's inconvenient. Will they have it? If they don't have it & have to order it, it'll take longer to get than if I ordered it tonight (because I may not make it by the shop for a couple of days. And are they open in mid. winter?).

I think ScubaBros makes a point in that if a LDS can facilitate a strong local diving culture/community based at the store & its events, it can help itself. Some people have mentioned the value of a shop having an indoor heated pool. My LDS has a large quarry onsite that's a major regional training location (this is southwestern KY).

Aside from being a big online provider ala ScubaToys, and since indoor heated pools probably cost a lot of money (purchase & maintenance), is there a cookbook recipe/formula for building a strong shop-centered dive community to keep a shop in business?

Richard.

 

[redacted]

Personally, I think your VIP price is fair. A Visual Plus machine is expensive, and it does take a few minutes to do a good job, document the work, and apply a decal, so $20-$25 sounds like a fair rate to me.

How does the cost of a VE tester enter into this? I don't believe any LDS is required to use one. And many simply have no reason since they will not fill older Al tanks; regardless of hydro and VIS status.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Correct me if I am wrong but there was a time when some brands like Scubapro and Aqua-Lug took it upon themselves to keep the LDS alive and were not letting any of their stuff be sold over the internet. You had to go to the LDS to buy their gear. Now we see these brands popping up all over the internet and I am not sure if these brands have changed their policies or if the internet retailers have taken it upon themselves to provide after sale service which was disowned by the brands.

 

[CoralFarmer]

as a small business owner in the same market. I can appreciate the scubabros unique approach to the hobby industry. I do business with people and businesses I like. It's personable and I like the type of customer service I get when I stand in front of a human being, and the can give me their honest opinion on products they have probably used first hand. Try calling an Internet retailer and picking their brain about a product.
Just like in my industry the Internet is hurting mom and pops shops. Yes they can sell something for a few dollars cheaper, however we have expected good customer service to equal quick shipping on sub par products. I would rather pay a small amount more, get real human advice on products, and support another mans family that I like doing business with.