Future of DiveShops?

[runsongas]

the online places that have cheaper pricing for AL/SP are selling grey market products. it's pretty much how adorama/leisurepro got popular. LP is now a SP dealer, so the prices are about the same as everywhere else now I believe.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

"Why?"
"So that___?"
"How will your life be better?"

Questions Answered 1970s:
I want to dive so I can get out from under the hood of these cars all day and no longer have to work as a mechanic. I think I'll try looking for treasure and maybe get rich! Being rich will make my life better. If nothing else I'll feel like James Bond or Lloyd Bridges and impress some chicks.

Questions Answered 2010s:
I want to dive so I can ... Hmmm. What can you do other than swim around and look at stuff? I mean if I try to find treasure, I'll get in trouble with the law, I think? You aren't allowed to bring anything up, right? I would try spearfishing but my friends would be mean to me on our next wine tasting tour. But, at least I'll escape my boring cubicle and be like an action hero such as ... Hmm? Well, there was a diving action hero in that old black & white TV show. What was his name? You know, that old actor from the movie Airplane? Well, at least I can impress some women ... although maybe they'll think I'm being too macho? You have to be careful not to seem too aggressive or masculine today. Hmm? I don't think this middle-age paunch would look too good in a wetsuit either. Maybe I'll dive a dry suit? That will make me look good like a Navy SEAL. Hmmm ... Google search shows I need lots of C-cards before I get drysuit certified. Maybe I'll just start with a gym membership and get fit before diving? They say that's important. Hey, look at what my friend posted on Facebook! THAT IS NOT A REAL PUPPY!

 

[KeithG]

From an owner's point of view.... WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU? If you do not find and support a shop who you like, where are you going to go to....

1. Have a few beers with other people who like diving to share stories around the shop pool? (FOR FREE we give out complementary beers)
2. Have an employee meet you at the shop at 10pm because you found out your bcd hose is torn and need a new one; the day before you leave on a trip? (After calling the owner's personal cell phone)
3.Give you a couple free rental tanks cause you bought gear from the shop?
4.Let you try some gear our in the pool for fit and function before you buy it?
5.teach your future girlfriend or boyfriend to dive after you break up with the one you learned with if you never give them any of your business?
6. fix that cheap used POS you bought used, then found out everything hissed and leaked air for a fair price? If the only money they make is off service it is soon to go up.
7. Bring your friends to try scuba for free since you took class from them in the first place.
8. Meet just you for a one on one specialty class cause they are nice like that and want to make you happy if you have spent $0 with them.
9. Plan a kick ass awesome group trip for your first couple ocean dives when you are still a newbie?
10. Show you how to use that fancy camera set up you have no clue about?
11. FILL AIR?
12. Give you personal one on one attention when you just don't understand something?
13. Fit a wet suit?
14. Rent gear for the weekend?
15. Support your local community's economy?

So many of the posters here are so bitter. Why do you expect a dive business to make absolutely NO money off of anything? We are a business just like every other industry. We give our customers free access to our pool if they are our customer. We let them hang out at our shop whenever they want. We come up here when we are closed if we get a cell phone call. We are open 7 days a week. We will teach a class with just one person in it. We do not gouge our customers on prices. We fix gear at fair prices. We don't make our students buy anything for class! This is our full time job we have spent a lot of time and money to be a professional at what we do. And offer great service and training as well.

So frankly some of you need to grow up and stop hating a business for trying to be profitable. It is not fair for to be so hateful that a new gear set might make the owner a little money. As for the used gear crowd I get it you want to save some money who doesn't? But if you ever just asked the owner to make you a great deal you might only end up spending $100 more than all used.... just think about it.

And who wants to take class from a guy in his basement that teaches one class a year in his free time anyway? Who wants to take a class from a joke shop that only teaches 25 people a year? If you haven't found a good shop, find one and support them!

None of the above.

Diveshops are dead. They just do not know it yet.

When I first started diving, my LDS was both the Diving God and the Center of the Diving Universe. Then I learned a bit. And the internet happened. So much more information became available. Then I learned how much BS the LDS was shoveling and how little they actually knew. Scuba is not "special", it is just another activity with relatively simple gear. It is not rocket science.

As a vacation diver, I have almost zero need for a LDS. The only local purchase we have made in the last 5 years was a new mask for my divebuddy as her current 25 year old mask was no longer made. So we went to the LDS to find a mask that fit. It took 2 different shops, but we found and purchased a mask. Given the amount of time and gas we spent, next time we will just order a bunch of masks online and return those that do not fit.

Everything else is either online purchase, DIY or specialty purchase. We use custom fit wetsuits. Bought through a local dance studio: specialty purchase! The dance instructor's husband is a tailor. He makes dance outfits and wetsuits. Better price, better features and better service than our LDS.

And no real panic anymore about equipment issues prior to our dive trips. Our dive destinations are better equipt than our LDS. A split LP hose was replaced between dives for $25 in under 30 minutes - half the price and several days faster than the LDS. OK - I now seem to be supporting some one else's LDS?

But my main point is: things have changed, the value of an LDS has greatly diminished. It is not the ONLY source anymore. It is not 1980 anymore. LDS needs to wake up and smell the roses and adapt. It is not up to us to keep something obsolete alive.

 

[CptTightPants21]

My local dive shop has an indoor heated pool, and when I discovered that they will let customers demo in that pool essentially any product they sell--that's when they became MY local dive shop. You don't even have to demo their gear to use the pool--you can use the pool to practice skills or whatever. All you have to do is tell them you want to use the pool during a time slot that hasn't been reserved, and they give you a tank to use. This generous pool policy has encouraged me to buy gear from them whenever feasible, instead of the on-line retailers I had been using exclusively. They will match the posted prices of Leisure Pro and any others, though given how much I value the shop I will not quibble over a few dollars. I'll be going to them when my regs need servicing, too. For me, it was all about the pool. An on-line retailer will never be able to compete with that.

This sounds like an absolute dream and exactly how I would want to run a shop if I owned one. Unfortunately, most dive shops are not like this.

 

[carlito35]

as a small business owner in the same market. I can appreciate the scubabros unique approach to the hobby industry. I do business with people and businesses I like. It's personable and I like the type of customer service I get when I stand in front of a human being, and the can give me their honest opinion on products they have probably used first hand. Try calling an Internet retailer and picking their brain about a product.
Just like in my industry the Internet is hurting mom and pops shops. Yes they can sell something for a few dollars cheaper, however we have expected good customer service to equal quick shipping on sub par products. I would rather pay a small amount more, get real human advice on products, and support another mans family that I like doing business with.

Oh but that's just nostalgic nonsense. Most local dive shops I have visited are tied to their brands and their preferences (true of Scubabros too by the way). You absolutely will not get an unbiased opinion (they sell their brand and like their brand and rarely have tried others; they don't like your niche like cave diving or whatever) and rarely I dare say never can give me what a good google search can give me in terms of unbiased and broader opinions. For example like my friends at Beaver Divers in Colorado and Scubabros both are avid and committed Scubapro dealers. I like Scubapro stuff; some of it is the best in the world (regs for example). Some is not. Try convincing Scubapro dealers of this. Mike is committed to the silly and heavy Scubapro Jet fins (i like them in caves and nowhere else) despite the scientific studies abound saying Bio Pro are much better in almost every catagory. I'm not picking on Mike at Scubarbros I love him and try to take as much of my local business there as I can. But please don't tell me about honest opinions that is one of the failings of a local dive shop.

 

[Rhone Man]

I don't think dive shops will ever completely die, but the margins will inevitably get thinner and dive shops will likely get fewer. But we had diving before we had dive shops, and even if every last dive shops closes we will still have diving afterwards. When my Dad learned to dive (in East Africa in the 1950s) they had to hike their cylinders to a gas factory to get fills. I hope things never get that dire, but I am sure we would all do the same if we had to.

Interestingly, in Britain there really wasn't a history of dive shops until the recent "PADI revolution". Previously it was all about clubs of members. Teaching was done for love rather than money, and club membership dues paid the cost of compressors and boats. I won't pretend it was idyllic because it wasn't. But diving does carry on without dive shops.

Dive shops have always been a pretty marginal business - a labour of love rather than a serious commercial investment. (Like the old joke goes: how do you make a small fortune running a dive shop? Start with a large fortune.) I suspect that the dive shops which do survive will do so by diversification. The dive instructor who taught me is still in business 30 years later, but he freely admits that he makes most of his money on T-shirt sales. Red Sail in Cayman is clearly a thriving dive shop operation - one of the best I have seen anywhere - but I am betting that diving and related activities don't make up more than 30% of their revenue base (they do all manner of water sports).

I have only ever met two guys who made serious money out of dive shops and they both did it the same way. They bought a piece of real estate, put a dive shop on it, struggled by for years and years, and then suddenly looked up and realised they were sitting on some extremely prime real estate and sold it off for a fortune. Just sayin'.

 

[ktomlinson]

How does the cost of a VE tester enter into this? I don't believe any LDS is required to use one. And many simply have no reason since they will not fill older Al tanks; regardless of hydro and VIS status.

All AL tanks should be eddy tested, not just the old alloy. An LDS isn't required to use one (VIP only required by law at hydro), but it is a good idea.

 

[dallaskincaid]

You realize a lot of these online retailers are/were local dive shops? They just happened to jump on the Internet bandwagon before the other ones. Just like newspapers and music, they are going to have to figure out what their niche is going to be to survive long term.

 

[redacted]

All AL tanks should be eddy tested, not just the old alloy. An LDS isn't required to use one (VIP only required by law at hydro), but it is a good idea.

Not correct according to: 49 CFR Part 180, Appendix C to Part 180 - Eddy Current Examination With Visual Inspection for DOT 3AL Cylinders Manufactured of Aluminum Alloy 6351-T6 | LII / Legal Information Institute

Do you have another reference?

Why is it a good idea for LDS? Got any data? I suspect it is just another income stream (ore unnecessary business expense).

 

[ScubaBros]

So the OP was asking about the future of dive shops. There have been points on both sides of the fence on this one and some good points made from everyone. My first post to this thread was really all about supporting a local business in your community that does a good job. It is a sideline that the local business we are talking about happens to be a dive shop. Americans in general are used to instant gratification and has thus created a huge online market. We here aren't saying you have to buy EVERYTHING from your local dive shop unless you want to. But just keep us in mind next time you want to make a purchase. If you buy everything online you are only making a select few huge online retailers even more money which further hurts local economies. I know some of you don't care about that, you only want to buy everything as cheap as you can but remember... good service isn't cheap and cheap service isn't good.

As for the comment on what I said to be joke shops.... a shop that only teaches 25 people a year is still a joke shop... Doesn't mean they aren't teaching good divers. But those extra 25 people that would maybe come to me instead is the difference in paying my employees and bills or not. As far as independent instructors go I was not saying they turn our bad divers either. There are a lot of great independent instructors. But please admit that your 50th class went wayyyy smoother than your 1st.

Carlos, thank you for the post. But even though we will always argue about fin type... I am not being dishonest when I tell people Jet fins are my favorite simply to sell them. They truly are my favorite fin and they are not for everybody I completely agree. I have never enjoyed kicking split fins from any company including apollo. Some people love them...others hate them. Despite the charts on their website they just are not the fins for me. Gear is a personal decision that everyone has to make about equipment they purchase as you well know. haha And I think that being upfront about that helps show that I am not simply just trying to sell gear. I want my customers to enjoy what they get and I try my hardest to make sure they get the right gear for them. When you wanted a suunto dive computer I didn't bash that company, they make great computers and I can admit that even though I don't sell them.

Also, my first post had a lot to do with defending dive shops in general. Dive shops do take a lot of hits on this forum. I'm sure some deserve it, some don't. I was trying to point out that I think my shop offers a lot of great services to serve our customers diving needs. I wanted to show that we actually do care that our students are trained well and we care about their future dive experiences.

We know fully well that our shop wouldn't exist without our customers. But some posters here really do not expect a dive shop to make any money off any part of their business and I was saying this is unfair. As a scuba instructor I know that I am pretty low on the totem poll. But after college I chose to own my own business and all I can do is try to be the best dive shop around. Please don't hate on me just because I am a local dive shop it doesn't mean I am an instant rip off as some of you imply. On a much bigger topic, Americans do need to start spending money locally in more aspects than just diving. Sure it is gonna be a little more expensive but how else is the middle class gonna bounce back if we are not able to make something out of ourselves anymore? That is simply my opinion, and I go out of my way to shop at other local business here in OKC.

At the end of the day I love running a dive shop and teaching scuba.
So everyone out there DIVE HARD! -Michael Cody