Full Suit Skin vs Shorty

[stuartv]

In 82F water, I wore a 2.5mm shorty several days in row for 4 dives a day and never felt cold. And the legs on the shorty were loose so water was coming in and out down there. My goal is basically to find the thinnest full length that replicates the thermal experience of the 2.5mm shorty. My guess is that would be about a 1.5mm full suit but those seem rare. For me, that would be the sweet spot. Full length sun protection, some scrape and sting protection, nice and flexible, not to thin and not too warm. Then if I go somewhere where it's a little cooler, I could put a poly skin under it and it would effectively be a full length 2.5mm. Everyone is different, everyone is colder or warmer. That's just my situation, whether it makes sense based on other's experience. I may end up with a 3/2mm and call it good, I don't know yet. That would add a little more mobility in the arms and legs which I really like.

Other than my annoyance with putting it on when wet, the Bare Exowear is really nice. It's just what you're talking about. Roughly 1.5mm full suit. Windproof, breathable, nice fleece lining. LeisurePro appears to have all sizes in stock. Also, you CAN get the Exowear in separate shirt and pants, just FYI.

The Waterproof Neoskin appears to be VERY similar. WP has practically none in stock in the warehouse, but LeisurePro is showing they have stock in a lot of sizes.

 

[RobPNW]

I used to "brag" about how little exposure protection I needed for different water temps. Then one day I realized that all I was really doing was bragging that I am fat. I don't brag about my cold water tolerance anymore...

lmao, that's actually a good point for me. I am in a personal weight loss and fitness journey right now. I'm at the point where I just need to get to the weight I need to be at for the rest of my life instead of yo yo up and down, before it becomes too hard to lose it. I image that by the time I go on my next trip, I may be about 3 inches smaller waist than the last time. It'll be interesting to see how much difference that makes.

 

[RobPNW]

For those that have frequently used a 3mm and a 3/2mm full suit, can you tell a noticeable difference in the mobility of the arms and legs? I mean in theory there should be but I'm just curious what your real world experience is. Is it a clear difference? Since I'm a warm dude, I would prefer mobility over extra warm in the arms and legs but if you can hardly tell, I may not care. The other question I have has to do with construction integrity. Since a 3/2mm has multiple thicknesses and therefore probably more panels and seams, is it safe to say that comparing 2 similar quality suits, a straight 3mm will be more durable. I mean from a seam standpoint, not a thickness standpoint.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I couldn't perceive a difference in mobility or warmth between a 3/2 and 3 mm. Keep in mind that as a suit gets broken in, a well-worn 3 mm will become more like a new 2 mm, and when those 2 mm panels on a 3/2 get broken in they will be like, well, nothing. My first suit was a 3/2 (Bare brand), and when I got a new suit I went to a 3 mm, because there were more choices in 3 mm suits. For me, a 3 mm suit is now my standard for tropical diving. "Too hot" shouldn't be a problem for anyone--if the water is like 84F, just let some water in the neck. (Note: This can be a bad habit, as a few times I have caught myself instinctively reaching for the neck in my drysuit.)

I also have a 5/4 that I used a couple of times in the Caribbean "winter." It also helps with proper buoyancy when using those heavy steel 120s that some outfits rent.

 

[stuartv]

I have not noticed in difference in durability between a 3/2 and a 3, a 5/4 and a 5, or a 7/5 and a 7.

I also don't notice any significant difference in mobility between wearing a 3, 3/2, or just a rash guard. I guess if I really paid attention and tried, I could probably notice a difference. But, I have never, ever felt like a 3 or 3/2 was impeding my mobility.

I don't generally notice a 5 impeding my mobility, either. However, I never wear the 7 or 7/5 suits I have because those DO feel (to me) like they are restricting me. It always feels (to ME) like a stark difference between a 5 and a 7. Not so much between a 5 and anything thinner.

 

[agilis]

This:


and this:


should tell you (and anyone else) the answer to your questions.

Some people are used to diving in warm water. Their bodies are adjusted to that and are behaving differently than a person's body who dives in cold water on a regular basis.

Also, some people don't want a tiny shiver ever. Personally, I want to be able to dive 5 dives a day, for multiple days in a row, and NEVER feel a tiny shiver, at all. As I did in TCI in August. 27 dives in 5 and a half days. A total of right at 27 hours, too. I wore a Bare Exowear fullsuit the whole time and never had even a tiny shiver. Had I stuck to board shorts and a rash guard, I think I would have felt just a little chilly on the last night dive (for example).

And I have plenty of bioprene. Really lean people that I dive with get cold in a 5 or 7mm when I'm wearing a 1.5 or 3. I can understand that. I am somewhat used to diving in cold-ish water, and I have a lot more natural insulation. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them.

I used to "brag" about how little exposure protection I needed for different water temps. Then one day I realized that all I was really doing was bragging that I am fat. I don't brag about my cold water tolerance anymore...

Why have even a rare, tiny shiver when you COULD wear just a little more and be actually warm?

I'm not fat, and I much prefer diving in warm tropical water. I grit my teeth when I hit cold water, but the discomfort quickly passes. Feeling the cool water on my skin is a treat. I must add that the idea of diving 4 or 5 times in a day is disturbing, at least in an area where there are things to see. I will not travel to any tropical destination that does not have extensive rainforests, natural rivers, undisturbed forests, and interesting local people. Just diving is not enough. When I fly to Domenica, the Bay Islands, or even Jamaica I go for at least 10 days and dive on perhaps 6 of those days, snorkel almost every day either at dawn or dusk. The rest of the time is spent in Jamaica's Cockpit country finding parrots, visiting Maroon settlements, or wandering Domenica's or Honduran rainforests finding reptiles, watching birds, jungle creatures and plants, etc.

The dive every day twice a day crowd don't know what they're missing. Local non-tourist food shops, indigenous artists, hidden abandoned estates, deep dark rainforests, local people not involved in the tourist business, fascinating history, a veritable wonderland. Of course, I always rent a car, and while diving is an important part of the adventure, it's only a part. Diving every day multiple times each day reminds me of overeating, of cramming as many goodies as possible in your mouth. A little shiver is good for you. Adds some spice to life. I've been scuba diving for the past 60 years, certified for 50 years, and will be 80 in a few months. The natural world I once knew is largely gone, including many reefs, so I treasure what remains and visit as often as possible. All of it.

 

[agilis]

You are crazy. What’s your SAC rate?

When I’m diving I’m hardly moving at all, making it completely incomparable to playing in the surf. Even in 27 degree water on repetitive dives I get cold in a 3 mm. Not like, I’m going to start shivering cold, but enough that it feels uncomfortable. I’m also negatively buoyant event without weight if I’m not wearing a 3 mil full suit, so I don’t see any reason to skip it.

Heck, even when diving in Komodo in 28 degree water, when the dives approached 60 minutes or longer I would feel a bit chilly in a 3 mil. Almost everyone else on the boat agreed.

I’m going to Okinawa next week, water looks to be 24ish degrees. I’m diving dry.

I don't calculate surface air consumption rates. At 79 my breathing efficiency is not what it once was, but on head boats I'm always forced to surface with about eight hundred pounds when most of the others are down to five or six. I'm known for being still, moving very slowly during a dive. Semi-dream state at times. In 80+F water I've never been cold. Put it down to total relaxation and 60 years of experience. A dry suit in 75F water? That's what I call crazy. Here in NJ inlets and rock piles that's about as warm as it gets, and I usually wear 1.5mm front zip microprene suit, a bit much, but nice and toasty. Of course, I'm usually in the water for only an hour or so.

 

[Insta-Gator]

Henderson Hotskin + 2.5 mm vest is comfortable, flexible, versatile, easy to pack for travel, gives you full-body environmental protection.

 

[drk5036]

Other than my annoyance with putting it on when wet, the Bare Exowear is really nice. It's just what you're talking about. Roughly 1.5mm full suit. Windproof, breathable, nice fleece lining. LeisurePro appears to have all sizes in stock. Also, you CAN get the Exowear in separate shirt and pants, just FYI.

I also have a bare exowear and really like it for diving in very warm water. It also works well under a 3 mm wetsuit to bolster it.

My main issue is technically one of its “perks”. In Japan steel tanks are the standard. Because the suit is “neutrally buoyant” when I use my thin steel backplate and steel tank, I’m negatively buoyant, even without any extra weight. But I would say it’s very comfortable and provides some warmth as well. It probably would be the perfect fit for you.

I bought it as a one piece back zip, but if I could do it over I’d buy separates.

I also use it under my (neoprene) drysuit when diving down to about 60. In that case I only need to use 3 kg of weight, easy and comfy drysuit diving.

 

[RobPNW]

I heard that the Exowear is damn stretchy too in case the fit isn't perfect.