Full Suit Skin vs Shorty

[stuartv]

I have Lavacore separates. And 2 different 1.5mm full suits. And a 3mm and 3/2mm full wetsuits. I'm a gear ho', what can I say?

I'm also built disproportionately bigger in the upper body. In 2 pc outfits, I typically wear one size larger top than bottom. E.g. XXL top and XL bottom. My chest is generally about 10" bigger than my waist.

Notes:

I haven't worn any of my Lavacore stuff in years.

My Bare Exowear full suit is roughly equivalent to a 1.5mm neoprene suit. But, it is the same breathable membrane style of material that Lavacore purports to be - including being neutrally buoyant. I don't have one yet, but I believe the new Waterproof Neoskin is the same concept. I will get one of those as soon as they have stock in my size.

I cannot speak to "lower end" wetsuits that maybe aren't as stretchy. But, I have ScubaPro EverFlex full wetsuit in 3/2, 5/4, and 7/5. I have Bare Reactive in 3 and 5mm. And I have Waterproof W7 5mm. All of them are plenty stretchy enough to fit me well (in the appropriate size). In SP, that means a 2XL, in Bare, an XL, and in Waterproof, a Large Plus.

I have never worn a shorty. I have always chosen a thinner full suit over buying a shorty, because if I'm wearing anything, I want full coverage protection.

The only time I have been TOO warm in the water was one day when I was in my 7/5. I used to choose my suit based on what would keep from being cold. Now, I choose what will keep me warm without being too warm. I.e. where I used to wear a 3 or 3/2 in 72F water, now I wear a 5, because I'm warmer, without being TOO warm. That is better for a variety of reasons including reducing the risk of DCS.

For a week in August in Turks & Caicos, I would have been warm enough in shorts and a rash guard. I wore the Bare Exowear the whole time, to protect against accidental brushes with fire coral or whatever. When I'm taking pictures, I don't always pay good enough attention to where my legs are going.

So, between a 3/2 shorty and something like the Bare Exowear, I'd take the Exowear every time, for the extra protection. However, I always PLAN that I'm not going to touch anything. If my plan included the possibility of kneeling on purpose - especially in a wreck - then I would probably go with a 3 or 3/2 full suit.

Also, just for the record, the Exowear was great once I got it on. But, the inner fleece lining does not like to slide over bare skin when the skin or the suit lining is damp or wet. Putting it on when it was still wet was kind of a pain in the butt. That is one reason I am looking to get the WP Neoskin when it is available. But, unlike my Lavacore, I never noticed the Exowear sagging away from me after I was in the water.

 

[johndiver999]

Getting into a dive skin is often more work than putting on a full 3. Mm suit because of how easily a suit may slide on. If you get a suit that is on the larger end of the size scale, they are easier to get into and if the water is warm. A little extra leakage is a non issue. It is hard for me to understand how most people would not choose full body protection, simply for the sun protection in warm sunny places. I am comfortable wearing a thin skin suit all day, and wearing a shorty over top and remove between dives.

 

[RobPNW]

Stuart, I'm in a similar situation. I'm a little longer in the torso proportionately than my legs. And if I'm in shape, I have had as much as a 12" difference between my waist and chest. I tried on the separates and was similar to your experience- XL in the top and L in the bottom, or L in the top and M/L in the bottom.

 

[RobPNW]

If I look at a 3/2 wetsuit, what kind of features should I focus on in the description? I would need a higher stretch neoprene for my upper body to fit. Other than that, I'm pretty clueless. I have a shorter and thicker neck so I'm concerned about neck comfort. What about the type of seams? I assume a bigger upper body guy should probably get a backzip.

 

[johndiver999]

Just get a cheapo 2-3 mm full suit with a back zip and order one that has an upper weight range that is a little greater than your actual weight. A thin suit is easy to put on, the back zip is comfortable and if the water is super warm, you just leave the back zip completely open.. that is what I do anyway.

I wear a lycra "sun shirt" or rash guard shirt under the suit and peel down the top of the wetsuit on the surface interval and keep the shirt on for sun protection.

 

[stuartv]

Glued and Blind Stitched seams are good. Flat lock stitched seams are cheap and let water through.

Back zip is likely to flush less water through than a front zip. Front zip is easy to get on and hard to get off. Back zip is harder to get on (I.e. zipped), but easier to get off.

Better suits will have some kind of seal at the wrists, ankles, neck, and behind the zipper. Cheaper (less warm) suits won’t.

Personally, I would rather have a high end 3 (or 3/2) that will keep me as warm as a cheap 5mm, rather than a cheap 3 that will be unusable in cooler temps.

 

[agilis]

I suppose it depends where you are diving. In the tropics, with water temps above 80F, zero mm nylon skins, the kind that ball up to the size of your fist, are all that I've ever needed, protection from scrapes and the sun, but no thermal protection at all needed. Temps in the high 70sF will have me wearing a 1.5mm vest under the skins. I'm amazed, even stunned, when I see otherwise rational people wearing hoods with 3 and even 5 mm suits or shortys when the water temp is 83 or 84F. What the hell is wrong with these folks? They need a medical check up if they are cold in those kinds of waters. I dive in fairly chilly NJ waters most of the time. The heaviest suit I use is 3mm. I'll add my 1.5mm vest over the suit if the temps are down close to 60F. In low 70sF, most of what I experience in summer, a 1.5/ 2mm suit is fine. No hood, ever, but I don't dive when temps are below 60F or if a thermocline is involved, and I no longer do repetitive dives in cooler water. In the Caribbean I'll do two repetitive dives with just a nylon zero mm suit, no problem. The ease of movement and the feel of the water is well worth the rare tiny shiver. I used to dive with just a tee shirt and bathing suit, and felt perfectly fine, but nylon gives better sun and scrape protection. I see people swimming and playing in the surf for extended periods when local waters are near a flat 70F. Why should an above the thermocline diver need so much more?

 

[drk5036]

I suppose it depends where you are diving. In the tropics, with water temps above 80F, zero mm nylon skins, the kind that ball up to the size of your fist, are all that I've ever needed, protection from scrapes and the sun, but no thermal protection at all needed. Temps in the high 70sF will have me wearing a 1.5mm vest under the skins. I'm amazed, even stunned, when I see otherwise rational people wearing hoods with 3 and even 5 mm suits or shortys when the water temp is 83 or 84F. What the hell is wrong with these folks? They need a medical check up if they are cold in those kinds of waters. I dive in fairly chilly NJ waters most of the time. The heaviest suit I use is 3mm. I'll add my 1.5mm vest over the suit if the temps are down close to 60F. In low 70sF, most of what I experience in summer, a 1.5/ 2mm suit is fine. No hood, ever, but I don't dive when temps are below 60F or if a thermocline is involved, and I no longer do repetitive dives in cooler water. In the Caribbean I'll do two repetitive dives with just a nylon zero mm suit, no problem. The ease of movement and the feel of the water is well worth the rare tiny shiver. I used to dive with just a tee shirt and bathing suit, and felt perfectly fine, but nylon gives better sun and scrape protection. I see people swimming and playing in the surf for extended periods when local waters are near a flat 70F. Why should an above the thermocline diver need so much more?

You are crazy. What’s your SAC rate?

When I’m diving I’m hardly moving at all, making it completely incomparable to playing in the surf. Even in 27 degree water on repetitive dives I get cold in a 3 mm. Not like, I’m going to start shivering cold, but enough that it feels uncomfortable. I’m also negatively buoyant event without weight if I’m not wearing a 3 mil full suit, so I don’t see any reason to skip it.

Heck, even when diving in Komodo in 28 degree water, when the dives approached 60 minutes or longer I would feel a bit chilly in a 3 mil. Almost everyone else on the boat agreed.

I’m going to Okinawa next week, water looks to be 24ish degrees. I’m diving dry.

 

[RobPNW]

In 82F water, I wore a 2.5mm shorty several days in row for 4 dives a day and never felt cold. And the legs on the shorty were loose so water was coming in and out down there. My goal is basically to find the thinnest full length that replicates the thermal experience of the 2.5mm shorty. My guess is that would be about a 1.5mm full suit but those seem rare. For me, that would be the sweet spot. Full length sun protection, some scrape and sting protection, nice and flexible, not to thin and not too warm. Then if I go somewhere where it's a little cooler, I could put a poly skin under it and it would effectively be a full length 2.5mm. Everyone is different, everyone is colder or warmer. That's just my situation, whether it makes sense based on other's experience. I may end up with a 3/2mm and call it good, I don't know yet. That would add a little more mobility in the arms and legs which I really like.

 

[stuartv]

This:

I dive in fairly chilly NJ waters most of the time.

and this:

The ease of movement and the feel of the water is well worth the rare tiny shiver

should tell you (and anyone else) the answer to your questions.

Some people are used to diving in warm water. Their bodies are adjusted to that and are behaving differently than a person's body who dives in cold water on a regular basis.

Also, some people don't want a tiny shiver ever. Personally, I want to be able to dive 5 dives a day, for multiple days in a row, and NEVER feel a tiny shiver, at all. As I did in TCI in August. 27 dives in 5 and a half days. A total of right at 27 hours, too. I wore a Bare Exowear fullsuit the whole time and never had even a tiny shiver. Had I stuck to board shorts and a rash guard, I think I would have felt just a little chilly on the last night dive (for example).

And I have plenty of bioprene. Really lean people that I dive with get cold in a 5 or 7mm when I'm wearing a 1.5 or 3. I can understand that. I am somewhat used to diving in cold-ish water, and I have a lot more natural insulation. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them.

I used to "brag" about how little exposure protection I needed for different water temps. Then one day I realized that all I was really doing was bragging that I am fat. I don't brag about my cold water tolerance anymore...

Why have even a rare, tiny shiver when you COULD wear just a little more and be actually warm?