Frustration moving into/towards tech

[tbone1004]

Thanks for that info. Their website specifically discusses sidemount training, but their course description talks about single tank etc and makes no mention of doing any training on doubles configuration. Perhaps it's an oversight many agencies are making in their course descriptions though.

Similar to GUE, with NAUI Tec courses, assume everything is done in NTEC configuration which is the standard hogarthian doubles setup. We have to get waivers to teach in sidemount.

The instructors that told you ITT doesn't teach doubles are technically correct, but that class is supposed to teach you the configuration you're diving. The reason sidemount is a separate course is part industry fad, and part the fact that it is a major departure from normal single tank backmount diving.

 

[jlcnuke]

There are agencies and instructors that teach doubles primers if you just need that help. I did it on my own. Got doubles read the valve drill procedures and practiced. For me getting the hang of neutral buoyancy and proper trim took a few dives, as that is less something that can be thought and more feel, although I’m sure coaching helps.

At this point I'll probably just figure it out on my own and get feedback when I do my next course using them, it just seems like if almost every agency has a sidemount course, that it would only be logical to have a course to teach the other similar tech setup in doubles, yet it seems it's "kinda sorta maybe covered in some other classes... possibly".

 

[tbone1004]

At this point I'll probably just figure it out on my own and get feedback when I do my next course using them, it just seems like if almost every agency has a sidemount course, that it would only be logical to have a course to teach the other similar tech setup in doubles, yet it seems it's "kinda sorta maybe covered in some other classes... possibly".

I promise you, it's supposed to be taught in intro to tech. If the courses haven't been fully updated since sidemount became popular, that's one thing, but the intent of that course was to be the place that doubles was taught along with proper kicking techniques, trim, etc.

 

[jlcnuke]

I promise you, it's supposed to be taught in intro to tech. If the courses haven't been fully updated since sidemount became popular, that's one thing, but the intent of that course was to be the place that doubles was taught along with proper kicking techniques, trim, etc.

Thanks for that insight. I'll reach out to Chris and see if there is anything along those lines he has scheduled or can schedule anytime soon. One thing I hate is "learning to do things wrong" and then having to unlearn and relearn things later...

 

[Manatee Diver]

Random idea, if the instructors expect you to show up setup for ITT, then perhaps propose that you spend a day of "doubles" coaching. It will probably be whatever standard fee that the instructor charges (typically $250-350 a day in the cave country area).

 

[PfcAJ]

I admit that I didn't look at anything from GUE, as I have some fundamental things I don't care for about the agency and it's methodology as I understand it. While I think they have some great training for those who agree with them or have no feelings one way or the other about how they do things, some of their philosophy just isn't for me.

Empty your cup.

No matter what path you ultimately choose, Fundamentals will give you a solid foundation to build on.

 

[jlcnuke]

Empty your cup.

No matter what path you ultimately choose, Fundamentals will give you a solid foundation to build on.

Can my buddy take and pass Fundies with his clips that help him remove his BP/W on the shoulder straps?

 

[divezonescuba]

When I was trying to sign up for a tec 40 class, I kept getting the run around on actually starting the class. It was listed on the diveshops Website. It turns out the instructor was not actually certified to teach tec 40. Since then, I have always checked with padi to see if the instructor was actually certified to teach the course that I was interested in taking. At first they wanted to know why I was asking that and I had to tell them the story. You could also ask to see a copy of the instructors certification card if you get any funny feelings.

The padi tec 40 course assumes that you are using backmount according to the valve drills and manifold skills. You are not expected to know how to dive doubles competently prior to the course. That is what part of the course is for. Some instructors actually discourage learning on your own prior to a class, as you could easily learn the skills incorrectly or worse.

The course Standards were later modified to allow the course to be done in sidemount, if the instructor was also at least a sidemount instructor. An example of that is reduced times required to do some skills with sidemount.

Tec sidemount was created to develop sidemount skills independent of the individuals tec certification level. For example, in the tec sidemount course, there is no explicit decompression instruction, other than carrying at least one deco tank, and doing arbitrary decompression stops. It is possible to receive both a tec and the tec sidemount certification by simultaneously adding in skills from the tec sidemount course, if the instructor is also a tec sidemount instructor. However, to learn both sidemount and decompression procedures is quite a load at the same time, IMHO.

There are actually some interesting skills included in the tec sidemount course. In particular the regulator removal and switch between tanks exercise on one breath. There is a reason why this is done on dry land rather than underwater. And is is not just because you could flood your gauge.

Some instructors require a student who wants to do a tec course in sidemount to already be sidemount certified or to take tec sidemount prior to taking the course.

 

[PfcAJ]

Can my buddy take and pass Fundies with his clips that help him remove his BP/W on the shoulder straps?

I think if he took the class he’d learn to adjust it right so you don’t need any clips.

People almost universally start off with them too tight. Way too tight. The crotch strap is what snugs everything up. My straps nearly slide off on their own till I buckle up with the crotch strap.

And in any case, of what matter is a pass if you’re only there to learn the fundamental skills with no intention of moving on to GUEs cave or tech curriculum?

Your cup is still full.

 

[Caveeagle]

Can my buddy take and pass Fundies with his clips that help him remove his BP/W on the shoulder straps?

yeah.. that’s just one thing. I was trained to dive a Hogarthian doubles rig back well before I ever heard of GUE or DIR. When I dive BM doubles, you have to look hard to see where I break form from some of my GUE buddies. I like my Dive Rite deluxe harness with the clip off shoulders. Sometimes i dive a handheld primary instead of a corded can light. And sometimes I clip my SPG up on a shoulder D ring instead of on my waist. And.. are you sitting? My poseidon regs have a 9’ hose instead of 7’..

...but seriously.

are you already diving a streamlined single tank rig with a long hose and primary donate? If so, you path to BM doubles will be a lot easier.

Interesting concern you raise that a formal training regiment is less emphasized for BM doubles than sidemount, for example. I think it has a lot to do with there being much more of an established standard for setting up and diving doubles. Seriously... it’s fun to poke at the GUE folks, but there really is very little variation on ways to set up and dive doubles.

And almost any experienced backmount diver/ buddy could mentor you into shape within a couple dives.