Frustration moving into/towards tech

[barth]

This fact that they contacted you is a bit weird... during al the courses/training I did, GUE instructors ALWAYS told me that what I do (when I am on my own) is my own business. I did courses with instructors up to Instructor Evaluator level.

That is not what was told me when I told during cave 2 that I did a cave dive with a bottom stage when I was cave 1...

A few months ago a cave 1 diver post an photo of the cave with a stage on Facebook . You should have seen the comments of a gue instructor. It was not even his stage. It was somebody else his stage...

 

[ginti]

That is not what was told me when I told during cave 2 that I did a cave dive with a bottom stage when I was cave 1...

How much time ago?

A few months ago a cave 1 diver post an photo of the cave with a stage on Facebook . You should have seen the comments of a gue instructor. It was not even his stage. It was somebody else his stage...

It would be nice if you could send the link, even in private.

Anyway, I think I will have the occasion to speak with a GUE BOD member soon, I will ask about their policies in this regard.

P.S. one thing is that you take a course with GUE, and you then dive according to other standards that you know. Another one is that you take a course with GUE, and then you dive according to other standards that you DO NOT know... in this case maybe an instructor can be just worried for his students, but I can't say it without context

 

[KevinNM]

But keep in mind that most of the time, your not assembling the doubleset yourself. The LDS will do that for you and the holes in the BP pretty much dictate the positioning (there are some differences that can be made but either you figure it out by playing or you immediately accept the new positioning during training. Not really anything to relearn). Hose routing is a bit trickier, but normally the LDS can set up the set for you as well. Although I think divers should be able to do some minor repairs (like swapping a hose) themselves, if you don't feel comfortable doing that, the LDS should be able to sort that out.

Well, my LDS is willing to disassemble doubles to inspect them, but so far it’s been up to me to reassemble them. So experiences vary there too. Sure, if you are in Gainesville or LA they probably can do this, but in Albuquerque not so much.

 

[KevinNM]

I believe it is around 50%, but don't quote me).

Very few people fail a GUE course. I managed it, so it does happen. Basically you either have to be unsafe, unwilling to try or show no likelihood of mastering the critical elements of the course.

A provisional is not a failure, as it comes with a list, possibly long, of the things you need to improve in the next 6 months.

And a lot of people get a provisional out of fundies. It’s not always the in-water skills, Sometimes it’s the classroom stuff. If you just don’t get how to do minimum gas, even after the instructor has explained it several different ways, you won’t get a pass. But you have 6 months to figure it out.

 

[ofg-1]

For most people, this is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be fun, except of course, golf.

 

[helodriver87]

Albuquerque

We should talk outside this thread if you're still there. I just moved to ABQ. Diving the JJ out here is a logistical challenge.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Very few people fail a GUE course. I managed it, so it does happen. Basically you either have to be unsafe, unwilling to try or show no likelihood of mastering the critical elements of the course.

A provisional is not a failure, as it comes with a list, possibly long, of the things you need to improve in the next 6 months.

And a lot of people get a provisional out of fundies. It’s not always the in-water skills, Sometimes it’s the classroom stuff. If you just don’t get how to do minimum gas, even after the instructor has explained it several different ways, you won’t get a pass. But you have 6 months to figure it out.

We can agree to disagree on this one. Failure should not be a four letter word, the fact that it is is another example of the wussification of society. If you did not pass or succeed, by definition you have failed. That doesn't mean you need to be put up in front of a firing squad, but at least have the intellectual honesty and inner fortitude to look yourself in the mirror and admit you failed. Perhaps I am being too harsh in my language; I suppose we can say the the Space Shuttle Challenger's o-rings provisionally passed.

I have yet to meet a person who was given a provisional for the sole reason they couldn't do the above water course work, but I am not egotistical enough to deny their existence--great in the water, but somehow can't do a series of multiplications and subtractions? If an instructor (with the above student) could not teach the minimum gas calculation over the four days then I have far more questions and concerns about the instructor than the student.

 

[Dubious]

THEN instructors tell me that "intro to tech" isn't teaching doubles

I am a little late to this thread which seems to have turned directions. If you're original question still stands about doubles training here is my limited experience.

I wanted to learn doubles. I have two pairs of 72's and one pair of 95's all currently separated. I have no desire to go down the tec route but was interested in diving doubles for redundancy. I asked my shop about doubles training. They pointed me to PADI Discover Technical diving. I was told they could 'adjust' the class to focus on doubles. I am not sure how much of the class is "adjusted" but I was told we could cover doubles configuration, valve management, buoyancy, and trim.

I did not go down this path yet because of COVID 19 (local pools had been closed) so I can't tell you how this class looked but I will likely go down this path since it is much more local than trying to do GUE doubles primer others had recommended. I guess in the end it just comes to talking to your local shops or local dive clubs.

 

[ChuckP]

To the OP - what diving do you want to do? I almost never see that question asked and to me it's the absolute most important determination of what direction to go.

Technical diving should be seen thru a fisheye lense instead of a half inch pipe that's ten foot long. Today you might be dreaming of that 12 hour cave dive but let's be realistic, not every little kid makes it to the NBA. Sometimes we do so much reading of this and that that we come to the conclusion that this is the direction we need to go but we skip talking with some folks that have tons of experience. There can be a wealth of information here, most of it is opinionated garbage though and it take a lot of reading between the lines. There's two people that have replied to this thread that are fantastic at helping steer you in a direction that help you in finding the answers you're looking for - be open and honest with them and they'll give you a honest answer.

I personally prefer the TDI method of Tech teaching, the instructors are given greater leeway in working with students but realistically, the farther you go into a hole, the more black and white things become. PADI will not get you into a cave, there's a chance you may have to go backwards to go forwards if that's where you want to be.

 

[RayfromTX]

In post #1 the OP asked a question that included an expressed frustration at his inability to easily find a class to work on diving doubles prior to taking his Tec training.

The inevitable GUE suggestion came out in post #3.

In post #8 the OP expressed his unwillingness to consider GUE for vaguely referenced reasons related to their philosophy.

What followed was 10 pages of a discussion of the two sides of the GUE youshould/Iwon't argument that we have seen several times before followed by a suggestion that the mods clean up the thread.

If we removed the GUE discussion what would be left of the thread? Did the OP get anything of value from the thread? Yes, apparently he will pursue training with Chris Richardson.

I'm not posting to say that anyone was necessarily wrong per se in this thread but it is the kind of thread that gives us the reputation of being argumentative for the sake of arguing. I suspect if the OP had just ignored the GUE suggestion and refused to engage the issue then the thread might have stayed on topic. GUE devotees find it difficult to not defend their approach to diving and it appears there is good reason for it, though millions of people dive successfully without it including most tec divers.

I am not moderating the thread but I hope people have found value in it. I have.