Frogman drysuit first impression

[vladodessit]

Because a thermal tapes glue degrades from time and a thin tapes also tend to scuff.

But I had 7 years of experience with Ursuit Kevlar (sealing with thermal tape) - no any problems with seals - the suit fabric died.

Never seen Kevlar. And it seems that older Ursuits fare better than newer. Best Ursuit I've seen was made like close to 10 years ago. Suits made recently leak at the seams frequently. This is coming from my friends and a local dry suit repair guy.

 

[stuartv]

Yes this is Frogrman - the fabric started to split apart but manufacturer refused to do anything under warranty as they claimed it to be still waterproof

I see what you're saying. The laminated layers were separating. Water was getting in between the layers - as shown by the bubbling that you can see - but not actually leaking into the interior of the suit.

I can see their point - water is not coming inside the suit. But, as a customer, I would be pretty darn unhappy with that.

 

[vladodessit]

I see what you're saying. The laminated layers were separating. Water was getting in between the layers - as shown by the bubbling that you can see - but not actually leaking into the interior of the suit.

I can see their point - water is not coming inside the suit. But, as a customer, I would be pretty darn unhappy with that.

my understanding is that there is more to the story. The lady didn't want them to fix the problem but to refund the suit. Like I said in the very beginning, I've seen few unhappy people with the suit. I'm ok with that as I know very unhappy owners of most known major suit manufacturers.

 

[stuartv]

my understanding is that there is more to the story. The lady didn't want them to fix the problem but to refund the suit. Like I said in the very beginning, I've seen few unhappy people with the suit. I'm ok with that as I know very unhappy owners of most known major suit manufacturers.

There are always two sides (or more!) to every story. Of course! And certainly every manufacturer makes a lemon every now and then.

After seeing the pictures, did you think her suit could be repaired? It looked to me like it would most likely have to be completely re-made from scratch, to really be right. But, I wasn't sure of exactly what I was looking at, and couldn't really understand the comments, so I could have gotten a way worse impression than was merited.

 

[vladodessit]

There are always two sides (or more!) to every story. Of course! And certainly every manufacturer makes a lemon every now and then.

After seeing the pictures, did you think her suit could be repaired? It looked to me like it would most likely have to be completely re-made from scratch, to really be right. But, I wasn't sure of exactly what I was looking at, and couldn't really understand the comments, so I could have gotten a way worse impression than was merited.

I don't remember the whole story but bottom line was she only wanted to get money back and didn't want to hear any offered solution.

 

[vioch]

Some posts from that FB thread:

User

"The manufacturer refused to give me a refund, claiming that if the seams and the sock are glued, everything will be fine, and such a state of the trillaminate "retains consumer qualities""

"there is a certain nuance in the fact that during initiall visit with Artem Glazov to the service we were said that the suit looks as if it was 100 years old, it's a pity, the solution is either to make a new drysuit or refund.
I decided that it would be better to take money.
However, on Monday morning with the wording above, this decision was refused.
End of story."

Manufacturer

"And yes, we have problems, we do not deny it. And this suit looks unpresentable from the inside, which, of course, upsets everyone, first of all us. But it doesn't leak and you can dive in it. And most importantly, we do not refuse and will not refuse to service it."

another Frogman drysuit

"After the Timofey Novikov's review "The Frogman" showed his reaction to objective criticism in all its glory .... They switched to personality and rudely, obscenely insulted the instructor for an honest review without any bias. Guys do not like public discussions about them, want only good reviews, but ignore problems themselves and are rude! Absolutely unacceptable behavior of the manufacturer. A million excuses so as not to fix the problems."

"Timofey removed review after the negative reaction from Frogman. I guess he was "asked" about it. But the review was completely neutral, he just made out all the pros and cons of a particular suit, seams, cuffs, material, size, etc. Not even a word was said about how "bad" the Frogman is. In fact, if he removed their logo from the suit, it would be just an overview of "some" suit."

Another Frogman Lady drysuit user

" The "shirt" does not correspond to the declared size.
....
The internal "soldering" of the seams is more reminiscent of applying ordinary duct tape, thus leakage and endless repairs are provided."


Another user

"I also own a suit of the same brand for a year. It was a new model and new materials. And more than once I gave it to the manufacturer for inspection and leaks elimination. But this was exclusively with the use of new materials. I was ready for this."


P.S. there are also 3 videos that that particular suit leaks even after manufacturer inspection - seam, zipper, etc.

 

[vladodessit]

Some posts from that FB thread:

User

"The manufacturer refused to give me a refund, claiming that if the seams and the sock are glued, everything will be fine, and such a state of the trillaminate "retains consumer qualities""

"there is a certain nuance in the fact that during initiall visit with Artem Glazov to the service we were said that the suit looks as if it was 100 years old, it's a pity, the solution is either to make a new drysuit or refund.
I decided that it would be better to take money.
However, on Monday morning with the wording above, this decision was refused.
End of story."

Manufacturer

"And yes, we have problems, we do not deny it. And this suit looks unpresentable from the inside, which, of course, upsets everyone, first of all us. But it doesn't leak and you can dive in it. And most importantly, we do not refuse and will not refuse to service it."

another Frogman drysuit

"After the Timofey Novikov's review "The Frogman" showed his reaction to objective criticism in all its glory .... They switched to personality and rudely, obscenely insulted the instructor for an honest review without any bias. Guys do not like public discussions about them, want only good reviews, but ignore problems themselves and are rude! Absolutely unacceptable behavior of the manufacturer. A million excuses so as not to fix the problems."

"Timofey removed review after the negative reaction from Frogman. I guess he was "asked" about it. But the review was completely neutral, he just made out all the pros and cons of a particular suit, seams, cuffs, material, size, etc. Not even a word was said about how "bad" the Frogman is. In fact, if he removed their logo from the suit, it would be just an overview of "some" suit."

Another Frogman Lady drysuit user

" The "shirt" does not correspond to the declared size.
....
The internal "soldering" of the seams is more reminiscent of applying ordinary duct tape, thus leakage and endless repairs are provided."


Another user

"I also own a suit of the same brand for a year. It was a new model and new materials. And more than once I gave it to the manufacturer for inspection and leaks elimination. But this was exclusively with the use of new materials. I was ready for this."


P.S. there are also 3 videos that that particular suit leaks even after manufacturer inspection - seam, zipper, etc.

Did you see Timofey "review"? I don't know what his agenda was but he came with some crazy "criticism". Like how "this domestic manufacturer put this ugly terrible ring here". Showing si tech quick neck. Or "they put male zipper in female suit". Because he thought the zipper was too long (it goes over the shoulder, DUI style). He also didn't like the fit (second hand standard suit seemed a bit loose in the torso, girl only had base layer on, though). And one of the flex soles had a leak. As far as I can tell, the flex soles they use are the same as SF tech. Timofey's opinion was that a proper suit should have neoprene seals and socks. Otherwise the suit is crap. Someone from Frogman replied that the suit was originally bought by instructor (there was the serial number in reply), and she chose all the options and standard size. The rep also mentioned that Timofey was previously interested in collaboration with Frogman but it didn't work out and this is why he was upset with the maker. No name calling was involved. The whole deal happened on instagram. I laughed at "honest review" because none of his "criticism" had anything to do with the manufacturer.

 

[vladodessit]

Timofey's photo of students on IG. Notice the blocked drysuit logos. Wanna guess the manufacturer? One of those is the suit he "criticized".

 

[vioch]

Unfortunately haven't read his review.
But lady on photo (E_Lipatova) posted in FB thread her own opinion about her drysuit - and she is very unhappy with it.

 

[stuartv]

Unfortunately haven't read his review.
But lady on photo (E_Lipatova) posted in FB thread her own opinion about her drysuit - and she is very unhappy with it.

To be fair, it looks like she is small of stature, and a new(ish) diver. Her criticism that the neck ring hurts her does not surprise me. It is known that the Si Tech Quick Neck ring is one-size-fits-all - so it is big enough for even my jug head to fit through it. That means that smaller people sometimes find the ring so large that their BCD straps overlap it and makes it uncomfortable.

Her small stature might also explain her dissatisfaction with the zipper.

As far as the "shirt" not being the stated size - well, that is a risk any time you buy anything to wear. You have to be prepared to return and exchange for the correct size before you use it.

Latex seals are not good for girls, according to her. I would have told her, they aren't good for anyone. LOL Get silicone or neoprene.

The rest of her complaints are hard to understand. I think FB Translate is not helping at all here.

The bottom line: A lot her complaints seem more the product of her own inexperience than anything. Generally, I would trust Vlad's opinion of the suit over her FB post.

That said, I'd take the double-stitched, rubber seam-taped Seaskin for $1000 over the single-stitched, heat taped Frogman Tech for $1600. So, for ME, it's kinda moot.