freeflow problem in first or second?

[JahJahwarrior]

Took the regs set to the LDS, had them gone over and tested--IP was fine, regs were great, it's all good. Until I get in the water for a dive today and I cannot get my octo underwater without it spitting air at me. I know, turn the thing over...it didn't matter, it spit air no matter what. I changed it out real fast with another second I happened to have, but I'm not exactly happy with this--I want to use the freeflowing second (Conshelf). I was told it was fine, I particularly asked themto look and see if it freeflowed. Before this I had noticed that when I was not inhaling, it would "freeflow" lightly out of the exhaust valve. My main second, a SP R380, is working fine. I read some things that say my first has a leaking HP seat, but the LDS said the IP is fine. Also, the SP has not been having this problem. When I switched out the second, neither reg had problems. If the IP was creeping, then shouldn't a hose have blownup? Neither reg freeflowed, so something was stopping that air, right? Anyways, I think it's the second stage that's been tuned too lightly. Will the problem likely stop if I "detune" the second? how do Ido that? It's just that screw in the air inlet right? Which way should I turn it (I think left) and how much (about an 1/8" of a turn?)

 

[Mako Mark]

If the IP is creeping, the hose cannot blow up because as you noticed, the second stage will start to hiss slightly and build a little until it reaches equilibrium. This is because of the downstream valve on the second stage.

If the problem was corrected by replacing the second stage, then it is possible that the replacment is detuned (or tuned correctly)

If you attempt to tune the second stage yourself, be careful, you can damage the valve seat if you turn the tuning screw without depressing the lever.

A good rule of thumb though, is that your second stage should not start to free flow until, when placed mouthpice upwards in the water, the water is almost at base of the mouthpiece tube or an inch and a half from the purge button.

 

[TeddyDiver]

Will the problem likely stop if I "detune" the second?

It might, and it might not. There's a dozen of things could cause freeflowing second (which is the case here) You should get it checked up by a specialist.
I had a similar issue with SeacSub Diamond octo and it was caused by a bit too hard (material) Oring in the puppet.

 

[spectrum]

Odds are the alternate needs to be re-tuned. If it had a new seat and wasn't broken in or detuned to allow for break-in then a little more use could have taken it over the edge.

Cancun Mark's suggestion for the water depth test has worked well for me and can be done anyplace with a pail of water. For an alternate you may want the diaphram closer to 2 inches below the surface with the mouthpiece up before flow is initiated.

You may or may not want to make the adjustment but knowing how to check the setting before you get in the water is handy.

Pete

 

[JahJahwarrior]

So, first I take off the LP hose at the second. Then I find a screwdriver that will fit into that screw adjustment in this spot. Then I turn it _______ of a turn ____________ (counter or not) while holding down the purge so I don't damage the seat in the second. I reassemble her, and after hooking it all up to a tank, I drop the second into a bucket of water, aiming to get the adjusment so that when the diaphramg is about two inches underwater with no water being allowed into the mouthpiece to equalize the diaphragm, it should start to freeflow.

The second was completely rebuilt and tuned, and on the second day of diving (one dive a weeka fter the rebuild, second day was a month later) it would not stop freeflowing even though no other regs had this problem.


If the IP was creeping, then the switchedout octo should have freeflowed, right?

 

[dannobee]

...If the IP was creeping, then the switchedout octo should have freeflowed, right?

Not necessarily. If the IP is creeping, it could leak from either reg, depending on tune. Borrow an IP gauge from somebody who has one and check the first stage for IP creep. That would be what I'd check first.

Oh, and you can pick up the IP gauges for less than $30 or so and just leave it in your bag.

http://www.leisurepro.com/Prod/AQUT...l&AdvSrchSortField=Relevance&SortDesc=0&Hit=1

 

[redacted]

So, first I take off the LP hose at the second. Then I find a screwdriver that will fit into that screw adjustment in this spot. Then I turn it _______ of a turn ____________ (counter or not) while holding down the purge so I don't damage the seat in the second. I reassemble her, and after hooking it all up to a tank, I drop the second into a bucket of water, aiming to get the adjusment so that when the diaphramg is about two inches underwater with no water being allowed into the mouthpiece to equalize the diaphragm, it should start to freeflow.

The second was completely rebuilt and tuned, and on the second day of diving (one dive a weeka fter the rebuild, second day was a month later) it would not stop freeflowing even though no other regs had this problem.


If the IP was creeping, then the switchedout octo should have freeflowed, right?

Then I turn it __1/12_____ of a turn ___clockwise_____(counter or not) while holding down the purge so I don't damage the seat in the second.

You will be screwing the orifice into the seat to increase the force of the seal. One adjustment should fix the problem you describe. If it wants more than 2 adjustemnts
(2 x 1/12 turns) the problem may be more than a simple adjustment.

 

[do it easy]

What is this? Mad Libs for reg repair... over the internet?

Just kidding. I always appreciate how helpful some people are.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

NEITHER second freeflew at all after switching them out. If the problem really was IP creep, it should have crept enough for one of themto flow, or a hose should blow up, right? Not that I want either

I think Spectrum has it right becuase I think he's considered also the fact that it was very recently rebuilt. Also the problem came on gradually, it became a little more freeflow prone one dive and a month later at the next it wouldn't stop.

Anyways, I finally got a splitter (Thanks Clayjar!!) for my Conshelf XII reg and I want to get this Conshelf 2nd working right so I have a full set again. (albeit with a Sherwood SPG and octo)

 

[dannobee]

I'd still check the IP because it was recently rebuilt. Sometimes the techs won't cycle it, causing the seat to seal in a different spot than when the IP was set. That throws off the IP. I think DA Aquamaster said that you could leave the reg hooked up to a full tank overnight to achieve the same thing.

Borrow a gauge from someone to verify that it's somewhere around 140 psi and not a bunch higher. If the IP is off, that'll make the second stage more susceptible to free flow.

The hoses won't blow until there's a LOT more pressure. Max working pressure on most are ~400psi, so the burst is probably AT LEAST twice that. Any second stage would have long since freeflowed by then.