Freeflow at 140'

[MikeFerrara]

Great Point Mike...

I would ONLY do that if I have two Seconds on the First stage. I would just turn off a valve if I had two first stages. Thanks for helping me to clarify that.

However, stopping that horrendous noise coming from a free flow would allow you to think a lot more clearly and would definitely be easy compared to enduring that. As well, you would save your air for a safe ascent.

Now, I'm confused. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying but if you have two seconds on one first stage and the cause of the free flow is in the first stage, kinking the hose on one second stage will just divert the flow to the other second stage. That HP air is going to go someplace and now you still have a free flow but you also have a kinked hose.

That's all based on the fact that a frozen first stage results in unregulated HP air while a frozen second stage results in unregulated IP air.

 

[The Chairman]

You're not confused... you just diagnosed the problem before you reached the surface. Good for you!

From what I understand, most "frozen" regs are second stages where the moisture from the diver's breath frosts in the valve, jamming it open. In the warmer waters where I dive, we have an equal mix of free flows from both first and second stages, which is why I PREFER an "H" valve or doubles. I hope that helps your difficulty with this.

 

[MikeFerrara]

From what I understand, most "frozen" regs are second stages where the moisture from the diver's breath frosts in the valve, jamming it open. In the warmer waters where I dive, we have an equal mix of free flows from both first and second stages, which is why I PREFER an "H" valve or doubles. I hope that helps your difficulty with this.

I've heard it both ways...that most are caused by the second stage and that most are caused by the first stage. I've seen lots of free flows in the water but wasn't ever able to tell which stage was the problem. There is greater expansion and therefor greater cooling effect in the first stage but depending on reg design there should also be less moisture to freeze in the first place.

I have thought of testing this by taking some tanks/regs deep in cold water and getting them to free flow. Placing a valve and maybe an SPG in the IP hose would make it easy to tell which stage is frozen.

 

[lamont]

kinking the second stange hose seems dangerous. if it is the first stage, that overpressurization will look for a way out, and if your backup reg is detuned sufficiently it might go out your LP inflator. on a doubles setup, it will definitely do that...

 

[TheRedHead]

What about warm water, guys? 2nd stage more likely? I've witnessed a couple of freeflows in warm water and both were caused by crap in the 2nd stage.

 

[lamont]

What about warm water, guys? 2nd stage more likely? I've witnessed a couple of freeflows in warm water and both were caused by crap in the 2nd stage.

anywhere in the world, it could always be simple IP creep.

 

[Ayisha]

May I ask what it means to:

"cycle a tank" and
"feather the valve"?

Thanks!

 

[TheRedHead]

May I ask what it means to:

"cycle a tank" and
"feather the valve"?

Thanks!

Feathering means to turn the valve off in between breaths and I'm pretty sure that cycling is another term for the same procedure.

I was taught to: 1) share air 2) turn-off valve 3) ascertain if the problem can be fixed 4) if not abort the dive

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think I would have done the exactly same thing as the OP. Go up on the freeflow reg, save the pony until you really need it and not unncessarily complicated the ascent by trying to share air with the buddy. If you are too nervous breathing from a free-flowing reg, then you shouldn't be diving very deep. Aslo, the diver should be confident that the pony could get him to the surface (without the deco bottles); or the pony is too small. Sounds like his pony was big enough, to me.

I have a question about the cold water freeze up/free flow: People have advocated shutting it down yourself or have your buddy do it. Let's say you shut it down for a minute of so while breathing from another reg (pony or buddy's) and then when you open the valve, the regulator works fine. Do you continue a 150 ft receational dive?

I think that I would be inclined to abort the dive regardless of wether the reg freeflow was stopped. Now if the same thing happend in 60 feet, I might be willing to continue the dive, but not in 150 feet. I would just be too nervous. Is delaying the ascent really worth the time it takes to shut the valve down in 150 feet? Is shutting the thing off really gonna provide a significant benefit?

 

[lamont]

I think I would have done the exactly same thing as the OP. Go up on the freeflow reg, save the pony until you really need it and not unncessarily complicated the ascent by trying to share air with the buddy. If you are too nervous breathing from a free-flowing reg, then you shouldn't be diving very deep. Aslo, the diver should be confident that the pony could get him to the surface (without the deco bottles); or the pony is too small. Sounds like his pony was big enough, to me.

I have a question about the cold water freeze up/free flow: People have advocated shutting it down yourself or have your buddy do it. Let's say you shut it down for a minute of so while breathing from another reg (pony or buddy's) and then when you open the valve, the regulator works fine. Do you continue a 150 ft receational dive?

150 ft is not a recreational dive.

I think that I would be inclined to abort the dive regardless of wether the reg freeflow was stopped. Now if the same thing happend in 60 feet, I might be willing to continue the dive, but not in 150 feet. I would just be too nervous. Is delaying the ascent really worth the time it takes to shut the valve down in 150 feet? Is shutting the thing off really gonna provide a significant benefit?

I had a free-flow at about 70 fsw yesterday that I attributed to new regs being tuned too highly for scooter, so I detuned them and continued the dive down to 120. My primary free-flowed again at 120 fsw, so I no longer had any confidence in my regs or what was causing the free-flow so I aborted. I wasn't diving in cold water, so freeze-up was very unlikely to be the culprit.

If all that happens is your reg free-flows due to icing on a cold water dive and you shut it down and it thaws, and then you're good -- why not continue the dive? You're not in any worse of a situation than when you started.

And if you're at 150 feet and you can't take the time to shut down, then you don't have enough gas to do the dive in the first place.