Free online cave course?

[diebeste]

Hi!
I am interested in cave diving (in the same way that I read accidents and near misses - for knowledge, not to do it myself) and wonder if there is anything online to read about it?
To prevent flames, consider that I am NOT planning to cave dive, and also do not live close to cave dive sites. I am just curious about the procedures, etc.
For instance, in diving redundancy is important: redundant air supply, (buddy, pony, twin tanks), redundant lights, some people carry spare masks, etc. but I have never seen any reference to redundant lines in cave diving - why not?
What happens when your line snags/snakes/whatever the term is between narrow rocks and you cannot follow it back out? (the line does not stay where you routed it, and although it still points to the way out, you can't go that way)
How do you prevent someone removing your line by mistake, or locking entrance gates not knowing you are still in there (read some accident reports like that)

Lastly, what are the biggest differences between cave diving and wreck penetration diving, or are the skills interchangeable?
Thanks in advance!

 

[tstormdiver]

Please understand that I am still yet a student going through my Full Cave course; I am sure there are some very good cave instructors that may have better answers than I. This is what I have understood through my cave course as I've gone through it. There is no online cave course that I am aware of. I would think that is because there's too much vital information & the instructor needs to know that the student knows. You might be able to get a hold of a cave diving manual from one of the training agencies. I have read both IANTD's & TDI's & have found TDI's to be more informative of the 2. Also be aware that there may be some procedures that may not be in print, but instead passed on verbally. There are also some other books like Sheck Exley's "cavern Measureless to man" & "Cave Diving, A Blueprint to Survival" that can be informative.
1. Cave divers generally do not run redundant lines because in a busy cave there can already be a spiderweb of lines running through the cave. To have a secondary line would cause more confusion. Normally a primary reel is run from the entrance of the cave to the permanent guideline & then smaller reels are used to connect the main permanent guideline to the permanent guidelines of side tunnels. Most cave divers will carry 1-2 "safety" reels for use only in the event of an emergency: to find a lost guideline or even a lost buddy or to repair a broken guideline.

2. A guideline going under a ledge or such in which the diver can not pass is called a line trap. Normally a diver watches where he lays the line & tries to run the line in such a way that it doesn't get trapped. If he misses it, then hopefully his buddy following catches it & corrects it. If it still winds up in a trap or the trap can't be helped, & the line has to be used then, as I have been taught, a diver may pull it out away from under the trap. Typically this is done only in training or in an emergency when there is no light or visibility. The lines are nylon & do have a little stretch to them. It is not something that should be done constantly.

3. I'm sure someone has removed another team's line by mistake. Many of them look a lot alike. Most teams will carefully identify their reels before removal. If it is an emergency condition, the cave is wiped out, the reel is normally left until conditions improve & then is retrieved. Most divers will mark their reels with their names, initials or a unique marking. I did this to mine & also engraved my name into the metal parts. I can not read my name in the engraving, but I can feel the roughness where I did for tactile feel if visiblity is poor. The secret is, MAKE SURE IT IS YOURS BEFORE REMOVING!

As for your last question I honestly can not answer myself, because I have no training in wreck diving, yet.

 

[karstdvr]

I have never seen any reference to redundant lines in cave diving - why not?

One line is all you need to find your way in or out. I have been in cave systems that have multiple main lines,and that is more of a hazard than help. The more lines the greater the entanglement hazard,and chance for confusion on a silt out or lights out situation. Enjoy the sites of the cave,but always keep one eye out for the line since this represents life support,if you do this then multiple lines are not needed.

What happens when your line snags/snakes/whatever the term is between narrow rocks and you cannot follow it back out?

When you lay line your are responsible for this,but any bubby/buddies who are with you need to check this as well,since that is their exit too.

How do you prevent someone removing your line by mistake, or locking entrance gates not knowing you are still in there (read some accident reports like that)

There is only one cave that has a lockable entrance gate,and when I go there the key and lock go with me.

I have been cave diving for 15 years,and have never had anyone accidently take my line. Sometimes people are lazy and will follow another person's primary/jump line,and return to find the line is missing because that team exited. But,that is violating one of the primary rules of cave diving.

 

[TSandM]

Your other questions have been answered pretty well, so I'll tackle the last one.

Cave and wreck environments are different. Many skills are necessary and work pretty much the same in both, like non-silting kicks, good buoyancy and trim, and line work. But wrecks are inherently unstable and can be much more disorienting, and are more likely to have sharp edges and wires ready to entangle the unwary. On the other hand, wrecks often have multiple exits and involve relatively short distances. It is difficult to be 4000 feet into a wreck

Wreck diving is also, kind of by definition, open water diving, and involves skills like dropping a shot line and doing green water ascents and deploying SMBs, which are not usually skills involved in cave diving.

Oh, and BTW, to add something about redundant lines . . . Of the miles of line I've swum, the vast majority of it has been permanent line that resides in the cave. Trying to duplicate the permanent line would severely limit most people's penetration of the cave (even an 800 foot reel is a big reel to handle). It simply isn't logistically reasonable for every team to run its own line all the way into the cave, and in some places, there simply aren't enough safe tie-offs for multiple teams to do that.

 

[diebeste]

Thanks for the replies so far. This does help to clarify things for me. I'll see if I can find the accident report where one team removed a jump line that another team relied on.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

One line is all you need to find your way in or out. I have been in cave systems that have multiple main lines,and that is more of a hazard than help. The more lines the greater the entanglement hazard,and chance for confusion on a silt out or lights out situation. Enjoy the sites of the cave,but always keep one eye out for the line since this represents life support,if you do this then multiple lines are not needed.


When you lay line your are responsible for this,but any bubby/buddies who are with you need to check this as well,since that is their exit too.


There is only one cave that has a lockable entrance gate,and when I go there the key and lock go with me.

I have been cave diving for 15 years,and have never had anyone accidently take my line. Sometimes people are lazy and will follow another person's primary/jump line,and return to find the line is missing because that team exited. But,that is violating one of the primary rules of cave diving.

Havent dove the cave at Vortex, but cant you lock the gate in the open position?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I just lock the padlock on the chain, with the chain NOT around the grating, so it doesn't lock it shut... Its locked open in a sense.

 

[diebeste]

Thanks for all the information, it really helps to get a mental picture of what cave diving is all about.
I assume that most caves dives would be decompression dives based on depth and time?
I also found the accident report I was thinking about:
untitled

 

[b1gcountry]

Look at the IRAP on CaveDiver.net

Incident Reporting and Analysis Project (IRAP) - Cave Diver's Forum - Cave Diving Resource

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Hi!
I am interested in cave diving (in the same way that I read accidents and near misses - for knowledge, not to do it myself) and wonder if there is anything online to read about it?
To prevent flames, consider that I am NOT planning to cave dive, and also do not live close to cave dive sites. I am just curious about the procedures, etc.
For instance, in diving redundancy is important: redundant air supply, (buddy, pony, twin tanks), redundant lights, some people carry spare masks, etc. but I have never seen any reference to redundant lines in cave diving - why not?
What happens when your line snags/snakes/whatever the term is between narrow rocks and you cannot follow it back out? (the line does not stay where you routed it, and although it still points to the way out, you can't go that way)
How do you prevent someone removing your line by mistake, or locking entrance gates not knowing you are still in there (read some accident reports like that)

Lastly, what are the biggest differences between cave diving and wreck penetration diving, or are the skills interchangeable?
Thanks in advance!

To touch on another perspective I can tell you this............. Any diver who wants to better their skills, situational awareness and other aspects, should consider a cavern and intro to cave course. There are things taught here that you won't figure out due to the style of teaching in recreational diving. But when you take a class you will wonder why you didn't figure it out because when exposed to this line of thought, it just makes sense.

Even if you never plan to go into an overhead, the things you will be exposed to, learn, and made to practice, will open your mind to a whole new wealth of information. You will learn equipment configuration that makes sense, how to make the diving part, second nature. It is kind of like driving and talking on the phone and reading the paper, and putting on makeup (lol). In other words, the skills you will learn will make the "diving" natural and then you get so much more out of your dives.

You will be exposed to other thoughts and skills that you just don't get through other avenues of training. For the price of a class, you get big bang for your buck. I have passed this idea to several open water people I know and they took the class and are much better divers for it. A few have moved on to cave diving after being bitten by the "bug", but some have not and now they encourage new divers to consider these classes in their future education.

For what it is worth