Fourth Diver this year dies at Gilboa

[TSandM]

But, hey, you guys, SOMEBODY has to teach us to dive! Giving up teaching OW because you don't think you can teach a quality class under PADI standards just means we would-be divers have fewer choices . . . And the one who are left are the ones who either don't care or don't know that the minimum class isn't acceptable.

 

[RadRob]

But, hey, you guys, SOMEBODY has to teach us to dive! Giving up teaching OW because you don't think you can teach a quality class under PADI standards just means we would-be divers have fewer choices . . . And the one who are left are the ones who either don't care or don't know that the minimum class isn't acceptable.

good point...

 

[Gear Junkie]

This discussion has strayed so far off of the original topic that I'm not even going to bother reading it anymore. I'll leave you here with the following.

Today's press conference at Gilboa seemed to go well...save at least one spring-butt, ambulance chasing reporter eager to kick up the bottom Most of the media in attendance were from the Toledo and Lima area. I'm a bit disappointed that Dayton and Columbus area media weren't in attendance.

Here are the first two articles published following today's press conference:

http://www.limaohio.com/story.php?IDnum=41398
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=local&id=5537902

JBS-R2T

 

[Barracuda2]

You know, we can talk certification and instruction standards until we've sucked the tank dry; doesn't 'EXERIENCE" play a major roll in this? To master any skill, practice and experience is the key. I coached wrestling for several years in high school. If I only taught the techniques and did not repeatedly scrimmage live using these techniques, none of my wrestlers would be close to achieving success. The best dive instructor can use the best methods to teach skills to motivated students, but if that student dives once or twice a year in the Caribbean and then tries to tackle Gilboa on a sunny early spring day, he/she is asking for problems.

 

[crpntr133]

"A lot of people want to emphasize the number of deaths here," William said. "Ask yourself, 'How many lives were saved because of training we offer?"'

Slam dunk on Mikes part.

 

[Geoff_H]

Most divers use the buddy system? LOL

The majority of divers just jump in and pretend they have a buddy. What they actually have is someone in the water at the same time, possibly in the near vicinity, who most likely isn't paying a lick of attention.

Is it just me who finds these type of posts really distasteful?

This thread is about the death of a diver, one of our community, probably a mother and wife and yet we get the normal crowd jumping all over it with their elitist "LOLs and ROFLs" at how crap PADI training is.

Mike makes good points and there must be merit in what he says, but posts like this kid's above really stick in my throat. Just a chance to massage his ego and further his opinion on how great a diver he thinks he is and how rubbish people who doesn't train his way are.

 

[MikeFerrara]

This discussion has strayed so far off of the original topic that I'm not even going to bother reading it anymore. I'll leave you here with the following.

Today's press conference at Gilboa seemed to go well...save at least one spring-butt, ambulance chasing reporter eager to kick up the bottom Most of the media in attendance were from the Toledo and Lima area. I'm a bit disappointed that Dayton and Columbus area media weren't in attendance.

Here are the first two articles published following today's press conference:

http://www.limaohio.com/story.php?IDnum=41398
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=local&id=5537902

JBS-R2T

Divers must prove they have 40 hours of training?
"He attributed the recent deaths at the quarry to “fate.”
"The number of people that come here and the number of deaths, when you compare it to the number of highway deaths, the number here is really low.”

Untruthes and illogical nonsense...I get a kick out of the "fate" thing...superstition?

I love it, the number of deaths are low compared to highway deaths...but it's high compared to knitting...and his point is what?

 

[MikeFerrara]

But, hey, you guys, SOMEBODY has to teach us to dive!

Why?

Giving up teaching OW because you don't think you can teach a quality class under PADI standards just means we would-be divers have fewer choices . . .

You can teach a good class under PADI standards.

And the one who are left are the ones who either don't care or don't know that the minimum class isn't acceptable.

Thats just it. A "minimum class" is acceptable to the market.

Here's what it reminds me of...Many years ago I worked as a dish washer. Things were pretty screwed up at that place and I thought I had some pretty good ideas for improvements. So...I arranged a little sit down with the manager who had a reputation for being a real jerk (everyone else was afraid of him and wouldn't say anything). Anyway, he sat and listened and when I was finished he said that he knew it was lousy job and that he didn't know why anyone in their right mind would want it. He then pointed out that he had a stack of applications on his desk and that he could replace me with a phone call...plenty of people did want it. Then he asked me if I wanted the job or not. End of conversation. LOL he didn't tell me that I was wrong. He told me that he didn't have any reason to care.

Later in life, I learned where I went wrong in that conversation. I failed to demonstrate how making the changes that I proposed would result in greater PROFIT!

I can tell PADI how to teach a class that results in a more proficient diver and I'm ready and willing to demonstate that in the water, just about any day of the week and in just about any location that I can afford to get to. None of that is really at issue though, is it? What I can't necessarily do is tell PADI how doing so will increase their profit. Most agencies are businesses and they aren't going to change anything unless it improves the bottom line. Making a bunch of big changes represents cost and risk. Where is the benefit to them?

Well, I eventually left the dishwashing job and I eventually I stopped selling PADI classes. The restaurant still managed to get their dishes washed and PADI still has plenty of people to teach their classes. The few consumers who want really fine food or really fine dive instruction (or any other product you could think of) can find it but there is a lot of money in selling junk. People eat at McDonalds, they shop at walmart and they get their dive instruction at the local PADI dive shop. Yep, most of it is junk but what does that have to do with anything?

 

[bfw]

I guess the question I have (which cannot be answered) is why is Gilboa experiencing this high mortality rate where as a similiar quarry like Portage is not experiencing the same issues? It really is a shame. I wonder how many folks were diving that day. Viz can go from good to zero quickly if a lot of divers are bouncing off the bottom.

Location is one reason. It's the closest decent diving venue to landlocked cities in southern Ohio, where there's a much larger "Club Med" diving culture than closer to the Great Lakes, because there are fewer opportunities for local diving.

Also, it has better amenities than any other quarry in the area, and thus is much more attractive to irresponsible, poorly trained dilletante divers. More committed divers will go pretty much anywhere for good diving and put up with Portage's pit toilets, etc. Someone willing to "rought it" for good diving is more likely to tolerate a more rigorous training regimen. Gilboa has fewer such psychological barriers to entry, and as any economist will tell you, that lowers the quality of entrants.

 

[=C=]

Here's a question for you. What is the tested and verified difference in dive skill between an AOW diver and an instructor?

Interesting...

I would guess responsibility.