Force Fins VS the world (advice for first pair of fins?)

[filmguy123]

A couple friends love their force fins; a trusted divemaster/instructor at the shop thinks they're not all that great.

Thoughts on what my first pair of Scuba fins should be, and thoughts/arguments for and against the force fin?

Thanks for the help and advice!

 

[fmerkel]

People who like them, like them. I had a pair of Cressi Frog paddle fins-hated them. Got the Force Fins, loved them. They are short (travel well), easy on the legs (minimal cramping because the work off the middle of the foot, not the toe) but with decent thrust and efficiency. Their maneuverability is very good. Tough as hell. They walk on land/boat better and climb ladders much better than splits or paddles. But people think they look funny, and kind of expensive. I think about everything in scuba looks funny. We are walking junk piles.

Got a new drysuit and the FF didn't fit. Borrowed some Apollo biofins since they were all the rage. Hated them. Obviously efficient in a straight line but lacking in fin kick options and maneuverability. A shop employee talked me into sticking with them and after 4-6 dives I sorted them out and got much better with them. Used them for years. They can work just fine when you figure them out. I continue to use Tusa Xpert Zoom splits for regular diving (a bit stiffer). The Force Fins go back to work for tropical diving.

I also tried the good old Scubapro Jets, the ones the tech divers use. If I had found them before the splits I would have stuck with them. Great for drysuit diving. Don't think I'd travel with them, too heavy but so are Apollo splits.

Interesting that the FF are popular in OR, at least with some shop there. We see the Portland folks wearing them. In Seattle no one sells them anymore.

 

[jphehe]

No matter what the fin design is, the basic law of physics still applies: Force = Mass * Acceleration, and FF are just too lightweight. I have been taught well that it is best to minimize your body movement underwater. That's why I'll stick with jet fins. Scuba diving is not swimming, and you'll need to kick more frequent with FF to move around. So, it is up to your style and things you do underwater.

 

[DevonDiver]

What I notice is that divers tend to either love, or hate, them. I am firmly in love with mine....and have been for a decade and a half.

My original reason for selecting Force Fins was because they are effective in reducing leg cramps. I suffer calf cramps easily because of medical issue from my military service. Force Fins seem to transfer much of the muscular effort from the calves/hamstrings to the quads...

I also find them exceptional for control maneuvering.... frog kick, back kick, helicopter turns etc. Some divers; relatively unfamiliar with using the fins, would deny that - but that's primarily because there needs to be slight modification of technique (mostly in angling the ankles effectively) to make it work well with Force Fins. The other issue is that the fins reduce leg effort substantially... so the inexperienced diver doesn't get the 'feedback' that they expect. That's then confused with the fins "not being effective".....

When divers tell me that "you can't back kick in Force Fins", I happily demonstrate a very deft back kick in the fins. Then I'll demo a slick back-kick barefooted. Then I'll caution them not to blame equipment for skills deficits....

The fins have ample power also. Some divers.... not used to them.... also doubt that.... but, again, I believe that's due to the reduced leg effort that reduces the sensation of 'power' being achieved. I've used Force Fins in some pretty extreme currents....and for technical diving with six cylinders. I've never had a problem with them.

They're also good for travel... being short in length, they pack easily. They're only very slightly negative... and this helps recreational and sidemount divers in achieving good trim. The bungee straps make donning/doffing the fins a cinch....and the bungee is easily adjusted for fit, or replaced when necessary.

The fins themselves will probably never wear out or fail. Mine have been dragged and scuffed through rusty wrecks for years... exposed to the worst of abuses... and are as solid and dependable as ever...

 

[tridacna]

Best fins out there. No cramps. Tough as nails. If you get them, get them with bungee straps. I now own four pairs. They look awkward but they're fantastic in the water. Jets are wonderful fins but in my case induced awful cramps.

 

[PatW]

I have a pair. I have really large feet. For some reason, most manufacturers make their fins for large feet that are enormous. Mine are easy to take off, loop on my hands, and come up the ladder with them. Also being only a third as long as conventional fins, they are easier to maneuver and move in tight quarters without kicking up sand.

Force fins work differently than other fins, a lot different. Before I bought mine, I borrowed a pair and did several hours in a pool with them. It takes awhile to develop the proper kick.

Now some people say that you cannot develop the power with them that you can with conventional fins. I have been able to go plenty fast with mine. I often need to. As an underwater photographer, I often end up on a subject taking photos and then have to go like heck to catch up again. I have no problems.

So they have a much bigger learning curve than any other fin I have seen. If you can get through that, they are as good as or better than any fin on the market.

 

[fmerkel]

For a photographer (now days it seems everyone is a photographer) control is a very important key. The splits are OK but do not excel in this arena. FF have excellent control, possibly the best I've ever tried of a variety of fins.

Yes, they have a learning curve, most fins have a learning curve. Many divers never bother to actually apply themselves to that task so never learn how to best use whatever fin they have.

[No matter what the fin design is, the basic law of physics still applies: Force = Mass * Acceleration, and FF are just too lightweight.]
This is a specious argument. So we should all put 12# fins on our legs? I duct taped a pair of plywood fins to my feet once as a stunt. The force to move them was significant. The propulsion sucked. A fin is a propulsion device to direct water. The better it does that the more efficient it will be. Design is a critical factor. Weight will have little to do with that.

In test after test where the divers attempt to be objective the top tier split fins always come out very high. To me it doesn't matter whether you are going through water (swimming), or the water is going past you (current). The physics of that is the same. Any fin that will be fast, will be efficient, IF you can sustain that pace. Sure, some paddles may allow you to do a significant sprint for a short burst but at the expense of potential cramps or anaerobic debt. You have to be damn strong to keep it up. The diver needs to be honest about their leg strength, dive goals, and dive conditions, which include travel unless you want a 'stable' of fins. Unfortunately you usually have bought fins before you figure any of this out based purely on shop, peer, or other recommendations.

 

[filmguy123]

Seems like a lot of positive things to be said for the ForceFins.

I have no fin experience other than some snorkelling a few years ago. So I have no learned habits. I have to learn a fin anyway. I am interested in travel, good control, and efficiency (over max power output, give that it sounds the FF have good potential power output anyway). And yes, control is important as I want to get into underwater video eventually as well.

Given that I will be learning from scratch - and while I will be diving here in the great PNW as it is home base, I am most excited about my international diving trips to come, and want something versatile for EVERYWHERE...

Should I just drop the extra dough and spring for the ForceFins right out the gate, learn those, and never look back?

Thanks for all the help and opinions so far! Very helpful.

 

[fmerkel]

You will never know unless you do it which is true for any fin. Since it can take up to a half dozen outings to figure them out even a simple single demo won't necessarily help a lot. All you will get from us is opinions which tend to be 'loaded'.
2 points - unlike a lot of fins they keep some of their value. Most paddle fins except a few tech type (Scubapro, Hollis, Turtles) plunge in price once out the door. The main brand splits also keep some of their value (Apollo, Atomic).
- they are not optimal for snorkeling. The cupped shape eases the back kick but on the surface they tend to pop out of the water. You can modify your kick and make them work but I would not buy them as a snorkel fin.

 

[filmguy123]

Not going to be doing much snorkel once I am scuba certified! But that does make me curious: does forcefin work well for both Snorkel and Scuba?

My dive shop has a special bundle deal so I am considering picking up a "normal" pair of fins they recommend for a pretty decent deal, and then just getting the Forcefins as well - reasonable idea? I'm not rich enough to burn money, but if it would be prudent to spend an extra $80 on a good pair of fins with the package deal they have for their students + forcefins (I live in PNW so maybe the standard fins would be helpful here?) I could always consider that option.

My GF and her brother both love the ForceFin.