Follow up on Emerald Shark Attack

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Here's what I have to say about emerald and their clients that keep them in business; **** you.

I was diving Zion Train, not even outside state waters, when emerald pulled in front of our boat, dropped divers and feeders on top of us, and proceeded to start feeding WHILE IN THE SAME SITE AS US.


I can't wait for them to go out of business. I dont care if you Support shark feeding or not, if you want to be ignorant and ignore the impact feeding has on animal behaviors that's on you. When you start endangering me is when I give randy the bird when he shows his face in hogsnappers after a dive.
 
I dont care if you Support shark feeding or not, if you want to be ignorant and ignore the impact feeding has on animal behaviors that's on you. .

I'm interested in YOUR research and facts about "the impact feeding has on animal behaviour", etc. This video/study by Dr. Neil Hammerschlag is what I usally defer to when the topic comes up.
 
I'm interested in YOUR research and facts about "the impact feeding has on animal behaviour", etc. This video/study by Dr. Neil Hammerschlag is what I usally defer to when the topic comes up.

Four Reasons Not to Feed Wildlife

I mean that's literally just the tip, if you want to be snide and go out of the way to find one guy who kinda sorta says it's okay ish you can, but it's the same willful ignorance of information that misinforms Anti-vaxers and climate change deniers. You can ignore the mountains of evidence that show the effects of feeding on wildlife, or you can find a guy who has industry interests that says what you want to hear
 
I was diving Zion Train, not even outside state waters, when emerald pulled in front of our boat, dropped divers and feeders on top of us, and proceeded to start feeding WHILE IN THE SAME SITE AS US.

Dropping a shark feed excursion in amongst another group would be objectionable. I'm curious as to whether there's more to it or what Emerald's 'side' would be, but the event as you describe is indeed objectionable.

Can someone confirm or deny the claim the Zion Train is not outside state waters? The Esso Bonaire wreck in that train seems a popular site for Emerald to use. As much as they're in the public eye, it's hard for me to imagine they're repeatedly hitting a very distinctive site inside state waters, especially since their clientele take (& post online) a lot of photos. But I'm open to hear what's known about the location. ParadiseDivingBelow.com's site claims it's 3 miles off shore, which would put it right on the line.

I mean that's literally just the tip, if you want to be snide and go out of the way to find one guy who kinda sorta says it's okay ish you can, but it's the same willful ignorance of information that misinforms Anti-vaxers and climate change deniers. You can ignore the mountains of evidence that show the effects of feeding on wildlife, or you can find a guy who has industry interests that says what you want to hear

Is there research you can cite showing the opposite regarding sharks specifically? I've noticed other people try to equate experiences of amphibious freshwater reptiles (alligators) living around large numbers of people, or terrestrial land mammals (bears) in a position to get in people's garbage & surprise home owners, to primitive cartilaginous fish (sharks). A scientist would generally not presume equivalency. He'd consider the possibility, but want to look at the research.

The anti-vax. people cherry pic research I would imagine; do you have some shark specific?

Richard.
 
I don't need to read a scientific study to form an opinion whether or not feeding wild animals impacts their behavior. The answer is obvious.

For me, the issue is, if feeding sharks is impacting the shark presence at shore beaches.
 
I don't need to read a scientific study to form an opinion whether or not feeding wild animals impacts their behavior. The answer is obvious.

In a 'yes or no' sense, yes it's obvious. During feeding, the sharks involved alter their behavior; they come get the food. Outside of feeding, I've seen reports of reef sharks hanging around sites where they're feed, or coming when they hear spear guns used (saw a guide jab the bottom hoping to attract one for us to see on a dive), and sometimes reef sharks cruise by to see what divers are up to (& may make a few passes; quite a difference from the high-strung, skittish reef sharks I saw in Key Largo in 2013 where guides used flashing hand mirrors to try to bring them in closer). 'Friendly' nurse shark reports are common.

To me, the key question is, what's the significant practical impact of that altered behavior? As you allude to, are potentially dangerous sharks showing up near beaches in greater numbers? A reef shark 'joining the group' for a few passes on a Caymans dive trip is one thing; a tiger shark doing so would be quite another. Are migratory patterns being altered? Is there evidence of increased shark attack rates in regions where feeding dives are conducted, outside of those who choose to participate in those dives?

Richard.
 
I generally do not comment on this but will say my peace then I'm done. The sharks of Palm Beach are not special snowflakes. Feeding them is changing their behavior and making them less afraid of humans. Like every other predator. It it\s reckless and reprehensible to feed these predators. Like every other predator.

I've cleaned up enough pieces of alligator victims because people feed predators, I'm just glad these people are not in my area of responsibility.

And Dr. Rich, you can say all you want that you are neutral, but you are not, imo.
 
At the risk of getting my head bit off (please pardon the stupid introductory pun), I'd like to make a few observations:

I've done four trips on Randy's boat. In those four charters (12 dives total), I've dived with tigers, hammerheads, bulls, silkies, duskies, lemons, sandbars, nurses, and gray reef sharks. Some of the dives from Randy's boat are pure drift dives. Others begin as stationary dives on the sand, but then slowly drift to the surface, with the sharks circling around the divers. At no point did I perceive any of the sharks to be "mindless" creatures, as a previous poster suggested. On the contrary, I would definitely say that they were cautious, highly discriminating animals. I never once saw a shark on those dives lunge at bait, but in every case approach it very carefully. The experience of diving from the Emerald was extraordinarily revealing about the intelligence of sharks, on many fronts.

I've also done about 16 dives in NC wrecks that had sand tigers on them, sometimes 50-100 sharks within my field of view (especially on the Caribs wreck). Not a single one of those dives involved chum, or for that matter, a dive guide. It's just you, the wreck, the sharks, and the rest of the marine food pyramid that resides at the wreck. The sharks obviously behave differently when there is no chum, most noticeably in that they don't circle divers as they do on a baited dive. But they do come very close to you, and there are so many that you often get bumped just from the sheer number of animals in the water. I don't hear people criticize those dives as "altering" shark behavior. I can see a distinction from Randy's dives, but I'm not sure how meaningful the distinction is. A shipwreck in the middle of the ocean drawing marine life -- and predators -- to it is surely not independent of the hand of man. And we all know that the sand tigers are a big part of the draw to NC dives.

I've encountered tiger sharks on shore dives in Kona, at the entrance to the dive boat marina. The consensus seems to be that the tigers are attracted to the marina by fishing boats returning home and dumping overboard the fish guts they've been cleaning on the way back. So this is yet another kind of shark encounter experience, based on what could be described as incidental/unintentional chumming, leading to tigers being dependably found in a specific area. The tigers' reaction to divers seems to be to swim along at some distance, briefly check you out, and then move on. That was my experience as well. Again, the hand of man manifested in a different way.

Finally, I've done the shark dive in Roatan. I thought this was a different experience altogether. There is a chum bucket, and it gets placed near a wall, against which the divers stand or kneel. The gray reef sharks swim around the bucket for about 20 minutes. Then a dive master pulls the bucket open, and a 15-20 second shark tornado ensues, in which over dozen sharks compete for the contents of the 5-gallon bucket, by trying to frantically out-position or out-muscle each other (but as far as I could tell, not trying to bite each other). In those 15-20 seconds, there is frenzied behavior of the sort I have never seen anywhere else. But after that brief moment, the sharks realize that the bait is all gone, immediately seem to lose interest, and leave the area as if nothing had happened. It was an interesting experience but not something I'd especially want to repeat.

When I started diving, I thought that divers who did shark dives were thrill-seeking idiots. But over the years, as I've gotten more exposed to sharks and more interested in them, I tried Randy's boat and found it a remarkable experience, and I got very interested in sharks. I can understand that diving from the Emerald is not to everyone's taste. And I do think there is some inherent element of risk assumed, but this is true of diving itself.

I do think it's fair to ask whether baited dives would lead sharks to associate non-divers with food, and to draw large sharks to beaches. From what I've seen, sharks on baited dives invariably recognize with great precision whether there is bait, and which diver has it (if any). I don't see those sharks going off and and attacking beachgoers in some kind of blind rage at their not having bait. I am not aware of any evidence of that, and not for lack of interest in the subject.

Finally, I think it's very unkind to say that anyone who engages in shark feeding deserves to be bitten, as another poster stated. I don't know the circumstances of Randy's accident, but regardless, I don't think anyone who has ever dived with him would question that he loves sharks, and honestly believes that he is doing right by them. You may think that what he's doing may have unintended consequences -- fine, we could discuss that all day. But I think he also provides encounters with amazing animals, which I for one have come to really appreciate.

There, I've said my piece. Don't bite my head off.
 
Hard to find proof that shark feeding is bringing more sharks closer to shore and the beaches. But many feel it is better to error on the side of caution.
 
If your choices force others to have to live with the consequences as well is it still simply personal choice?

There are very specific protocols hikers and campers are expected to adhere to in regard to waste and food so as to not attract bears. As another poster mentioned, we try to teach people not to feed alligators so that the food association with humans isn't made.

Is shark feeding different?

If feeding sharks creates an association between divers and easy food than I think it goes beyond simply a personal choice since other divers are also potentially affected when they dive in that area.

For, me it is about seeing marine life in it's natural habitat going about it's business - not artifically luring them in. But to each his own!

I agree, in less than 50 dives I've seen a dozen reefies, three sandbar sharks and two bull sharks without baiting; pretty cool.
 
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