First time getting narced...Yipes!

[The Chairman]

Relying on NitrOx for clarity at depth is merely INVITING disaster. If you disagree, please show me one agency that teaches this as anything other than a myth to be avoided. Oxygen has it's own issues regarding narcosis. If you want to avoid narcosis, please utilize tri-mix. I would also be interested in anything that quantifies your "thousands of divers" assertion. However, when I consider how many "thousands of divers" simply deny that they get narced at all, this makes a lot of sense. That being said, I doubt that I know of any instructor who teaches that NitrOx will decrease narcosis. Denial: not just another river in Egypt.

As an instructor, I would suggest to all who read this thread, that the addition of Oxygen to your gas will NOT ameliorate your propensity to narcosis. It has been proven that an increase in the PP of O₂ affects the central nervous system leading even to convulsions at the higher end. Suggesting that there is NO impact on the central nervous system before you convulse is fool hardy in my opinion.

 

[perdidochas]

Relying on NitrOx for clarity at depth is merely INVITING disaster.

Never said I would rely on it. I treat a nitrox dive to 100' the same as any other dive to 100'. The lowered narcosis is a bonus.

If you disagree, please show me one agency that teaches this as anything other than a myth to be avoided.

When I was nitrox certified in 1989 by ANDI, that was what was taught.

Oxygen has it's own issues regarding narcosis. If you want to avoid narcosis, please utilize tri-mix. I would also be interested in anything that quantifies your "thousands of divers" assertion. However, when I consider how many "thousands of divers" simply deny that they get narced at all, this makes a lot of sense. That being said, I doubt that I know of any instructor who teaches that NitrOx will decrease narcosis. Denial: not just another river in Egypt.

As an instructor, I would suggest to all who read this thread, that the addition of Oxygen to your gas will NOT ameliorate your propensity to narcosis. It has been proven that an increase in the PP of O₂ affects the central nervous system leading even to convulsions at the higher end. Suggesting that there is NO impact on the central nervous system before you convulse is fool hardy in my opinion.

 

[The Chairman]

Sent to ANDI:

Hello ANDI,

Your training standards are being discussed at the moment here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...-time-getting-narced-yipes-2.html#post3511783 In post #32, Perdidochas has made a statement that ANDI teaches that NitrOx provides for reduced narcosis at depth. Could you please affirm or deny this as true. Thanks!

[FONT=&quot]Pete "NetDoc" Murray[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot](407) 745-1516[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]NetDoc@ScubaBoard.com[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]:sblogo:[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The World's Largest Diving Community![/FONT]​

 

[perdidochas]

Sent to ANDI:

Hello ANDI,

Your training standards are being discussed at the moment here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...-time-getting-narced-yipes-2.html#post3511783 In post #32, Perdidochas has made a statement that ANDI teaches that NitrOx provides for reduced narcosis at depth. Could you please affirm or deny this as true. Thanks!

[FONT=&quot]Pete "NetDoc" Murray[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot](407) 745-1516[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]NetDoc@ScubaBoard.com[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]:sblogo:[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The World's Largest Diving Community![/FONT]​

That's what was taught in 1989.

 

[Walter]

I don't buy it. I know my observations. I do agree that the rest of the reasons are the more important reasons for using nitrox. Reduced (not eliminated) narcosis is just a side benefit.

Buy it or not, it's true. Check the NOAA Diving Manual for confirmation.

END of 140 on a 200ft dive. almost a case of why bother. LOL

Can't exactly agree with that one, Jeff. I agree, if you're going to be using trimix, you should not be plan for an END of 140, but I notice a big difference in narcosis from 140' to 200'.

 

[piikki]

However, when I consider how many "thousands of divers" simply deny that they get narced at all, this makes a lot of sense.

I wonder if so many divers would deny they were ever narc'ed if narcosis or the many ways of "being narced" were explained a little bit more during basic training. At least for us, the narcosis part of the lecture was a jokester session. You know, hearing how people are so "drunk" they repeatedly spit their regs out when poor instructor tries to re-insert them, or panic and bolt to surface or bottom, rip all their gear off, attempt to dance with fishies or generally do something really drastic or silly etc. Makes you wonder if these stories are really told to educate or to impress newbies with the craziest story.

In the beginning I was prone to say I have not experienced narcosis because I have never done anything stupid and have managed to execute my plan regardless of feeling slowed down and some new checking behaviors. I could remember it "all", observed and judged myself doing it - so it did not sound like what this crazy narcosis talk was all about.

I think it would be beneficial for instructors to concentrate less on the funny side when they talk about narcosis, and give some more examples of the varied warning signs and less funny things about narcosis.

 

[JeffG]

Can't exactly agree with that one, Jeff. I agree, if you're going to be using trimix, you should not be plan for an END of 140, but I notice a big difference in narcosis from 140' to 200'.

I was being a bit facetious.

 

[RonFrank]

Maybe NN is why I dive!

I was on the Grove last summer at about 110', and my buddy in front of me (doing light penetration) got tangled up in a line. Not sure how long we spent getting him untangled, but it took me 15 seconds or better to retrieve my knife, and likely double that to get it back into the sheath!

Until that point I had no idea how Narc'd I was....

 

[wedivebc]

That's what was taught in 1989.

That is what is being taught by ANDI still, and TDI, SSI,IANTD,PADI (firmly on the fence) and probably some others. All you have to do is look at the way they measure equivalent narcotic depth in the trimix program to determine the agency position on O2 narcosis. If they use the PPN2 as the sole measure of narcosis then they are negating O2 narcosis.
The fact is the amount of impairment is very difficult to measure so no one can say for sure.
The other matter is the amount of oxygen fraction at any depth that impairment is noticable makes Netdocs statement true, don't rely on nitrox to reduce impaiment. But I would not take a firm stand on the amount oxgen contributes to impairment based on that because it might be less than you think.

 

[wedivebc]

Sent to ANDI:

Hello ANDI,

Your training standards are being discussed at the moment here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...-time-getting-narced-yipes-2.html#post3511783 In post #32, Perdidochas has made a statement that ANDI teaches that NitrOx provides for reduced narcosis at depth. Could you please affirm or deny this as true. Thanks!

​

PM padiscubapro, he is an ANDI training director.
I would like to hear his thoughts on this.

As an instructor, I would suggest to all who read this thread, that the addition of Oxygen to your gas will NOT ameliorate your propensity to narcosis. It has been proven that an increase in the PP of O2 affects the central nervous system leading even to convulsions at the higher end. Suggesting that there is NO impact on the central nervous system before you convulse is fool hardy in my opinion.

What does narcosis have to do with O2 toxicity? You are just throwing a red herring into the mix here.