First Regulator Use after Service

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I'm not disagreeing with you. But "testing" a repair is a normal part of any good repair action on any item. Sometimes an "operationally realistic" test is not possible or practical. In those cases one may substitute other means of testing like Phill does in his shop or like NASA does with spacecraft. Sure, I'd take one of my freshly DIY serviced regs on a dive vacation and roll off the boat with it with no hesitation. I would have done all the non-diving checks and been confident it will work fine. I'd put the risk involved as extremely low. But I don't have to do that as a test dive is normally very easy to arrange in sunny central TX (pool and lake in my back yard) or I have a number of regs to choose from that have proven their performance in recent dives. So I'd probably take one of those. And from my dealings with Phil and Dive Sports (as well as some of the other larger service providers active on this board), I think I would treat his work the same as mine. Definately not so with the small shops I dealt with years ago that were my motivation for learning to DIY.

I probably shouldn't embolden text so much....probably gives the wrong impression of yelling.... :)

Likewise, I'm not disagreeing, but I'm seriously interested in hearing what specific safety issues, post-service, people are trying to detect with a test dive or if they're just trying to avoid being inconvenienced.

Edit: To be clear, the risk that I am most concerned with is the risk of losing or aborting a dive, not any risk of suffering physical harm.

Your edit makes clear your feeling on the issues, so I'll redirect my comments below to anyone interested.

If the safety issues are insignificant, I'm saying that post-service "non-diving" evaluation of the regulator is going to reveal most issues, IMHO.

What are some examples of significant safety issues from faulty regulator servicing?

Would examples include dropping the IP so low as to provide inadequate output at significant depth?

What's the minimum IP that's possible in a regulator that otherwise might give the appearance of functioning normally?

With my Sherwoods, if the spring is installed, but the shims omitted, the IP is still going to be 120 psi or so, maybe 100 with a really shot spring. That will still provide adequate output to depths of 5 ata, wouldn't it?

How about a grossly clogged inlet filter? Similarly adequate output as above?

Anything else that couldn't easily be detected above water pre-dive?

For experienced divers doing open-water dives, wouldn't the potential and degree of any safety issues determine whether "operationally realistic" testing is prudent or just overkill?

I know I'm repeating myself, but I just don't see the pressing need to dive-test a recently serviced regulator....but I could easily be missing something very obvious to everybody else.... :shakehead:

As W.C. Fields said, "Never smarten up a chump...." Please do, I may need it! :D

IMHO, the testing should be appropriate to what's at risk.

If the next "real" dive is just the local quarry, there's probably no need for a "test" of any sort. OTOH, if a critical piece of gear (not just regs) has been added or changed/fixed/adjusted, and I'm headed off to a week on a liveaboard then yeah, a little pool time is probably in order.

And besides, "hey, gotta make sure everything works OK" is a great excuse to go get wet!
Even "new" gear can be flawed. That goes for the "new" parts installed by a skilled, competent tech. The precautions we take should be commensurate with the risk involved. A free-flowing reg is probably not that big of a risk to a trained diver in a buddy situation, but to most of us the possibility of having to sit out for a week on a trip that we paid big bucks for certainly is a "risk".

This is what I'm getting at, but you've said it more concisely and clearly than I. Thanks!

Dave C
 
In my early days, I had an AIR2 serviced by an LDS about a month before we were going to Cozumel. Took it for a local lake dive and did an OOA drill. It breathed as badly as I have ever had a reg breath. It was uncomfortable and we were calm and not too deep. I took it back to the shop and he explaind that they need to breath a little hard to prevent free flow but he agreed to adjust it a bit. Next try it breathed a bit worse. Another round of repair and I got my gear back the day before we were to depart. Shop owner/tech explained that he was adjusting it the wrong way.:shakehead: He did not have a very well equipped bench and, of course he was not about to get wet testing it. He did show me how to adjust it if I had more problem but even that was not entirely correct. He talked about adjusting the nyloc nut but didn't mention the orifice. That was my first experience with an LDS tech service.:11:
 
Local conservative site. two issues for me!
Last year, I had my reg's serviced, I took them out to my local dives site, stayed in 4ft of water, went down and started to breath. the primary 2nd breathed very wet, the octo breathed ok, and became my primary for the day. When I took the reg's back I informed the shop of what happened, to help them service the reg. They returned them two weeks later and tried to charge me for the repairs again, giving me used parts that were a disaster. If these were the parts left in after the first repair, they did not repair anything! I argued that I had the repairs done just a couple of weeks earlier, and paid then! they insisted I pay for the repairs the second time, showing me the parts. I asked to speak to the owners, since I had known them for years, that is when I found out they had sold the shop! I left with my reg's and did not pay the second time. I will be keeping an eye on the new owners.:shakehead:
Alway check your newly serviced gear at the safest location you can, even if it's the bathtub.
 

Not, critical, but it's nice to have a bleeder valve/air nozzle on the gauge, too. :D

See my DIY IP gauge below.

Dave C

IP_Gauge_ACt_M-Cr_R900_PC280002.jpg
 
Not, critical, but it's nice to have a bleeder valve/air nozzle on the gauge, too. :D

See my DIY IP gauge below.

Dave C

IP_Gauge_ACt_M-Cr_R900_PC280002.jpg

Dave

What is the advantage of that rig other than you can check a 1st stage with no 2nds stages attached? Does isolating the 1st stage from other attachments help in some way? If so, I you can get a 3/8 - 18 (I think that is correct) to NPT adapter and screw the gauge directly into and LP port.
 
I think the peterbuilt IP guage is about $23, set up for a LP inflator hose. I could see a theoretical advantage in completely isolating the 1st stage for precision IP testing, but I can't see any reason that you'd need to do that. In terms of testing IP drop, you want a 2nd stage on it anyways.

Dave, low IP is rarely if ever a problem that I'm aware of. It's IP that's too high or creeping up that's the scary problem, as it indicates a leaky HP seat.

I'm still waiting for Phil to post how he gets the seats to set after service.
 
Dave

What is the advantage of that rig other than you can check a 1st stage with no 2nds stages attached? Does isolating the 1st stage from other attachments help in some way? If so, I you can get a 3/8 - 18 (I think that is correct) to NPT adapter and screw the gauge directly into and LP port.

That's the only advantage I had in mind, since my 2nd stages are usually still soaking while I cycle and check the reassembled 1st stage.

I'll have to defer to the experts about the effect of isolating the 1st stage compared to measuring IP changes using the 2nd stages.

I also check IP changes while breathing the 2nd stages once they're reassembled.

My IP numbers are the about the same for both methods, so I think the nozzle has output similar to the 2nd stages.

As far as connecting the gauge directly to a port, I don't know if that would be better. I've never bothered.

So, obviously, I'm not an expert, and I'm very glad my Sherwoods are so simple to service! :D

I think the peterbuilt IP guage is about $23, set up for a LP inflator hose. I could see a theoretical advantage in completely isolating the 1st stage for precision IP testing, but I can't see any reason that you'd need to do that. In terms of testing IP drop, you want a 2nd stage on it anyways.

Dave, low IP is rarely if ever a problem that I'm aware of. It's IP that's too high or creeping up that's the scary problem, as it indicates a leaky HP seat.

That's what I understand, too, but scary because of the increased intensity of the free flow?

The result of a leaky HP seat and rising IP would simply be free flow in downstream type 2nd stages, right?

Would rising IP and free flow be "worst case scenario"? I'd like to know.

I'm still waiting for Phil to post how he gets the seats to set after service.

I'd like to hear his methods on that, too! :)

Dave C
 
Shucks, this thread has already wound down and I have not had MY chance to jump all over Phil. The poor man said "uncle" twice and still got pounded. Well, that's life in the cyber lane. Phil, fair dues to you for even weighing in on this one; I'm sure your repair department does an outstanding job, but I think the point my fellow trampoline artist is trying to make is that regardless of who serviced a regulator, one MUST check it out prior to diving with it. We all have our own way of doing that....No pool necessary for me. I do a water tight integrity check, a flow check (slight tap on the purge button should be all it takes) an IP check and a simple cracking pressure check in my sink before every trip and after any service (I DYI) Total time approx one minute and only the IP gage could be called a "special tool."

Just my < 2 in H2O

couv
 
I know I'm repeating myself, but I just don't see the pressing need to dive-test a recently serviced regulator....but I could easily be missing something very obvious to everybody else.... :shakehead:

I guess I'm just coming at it from the opposite direction - I just don't see the pressing need to NOT do a checkout dive on a recently serviced regulator. Maybe someone else finds doing a checkout dive to be a real PITA but I'm often at such shallow sites anyway and I have several regs so I can defer it to later if my "next" dives are deep and dark.

I can't say diving on a newly serviced reg is a significant risk because you should be able to deal with a total reg failure at any time. But I don't want to increase that risk. Even if there were no safety risk at all, the risk of being inconvenienced is enough to warrant a checkout dive, to me.
 
The result of a leaky HP seat and rising IP would simply be free flow in downstream type 2nd stages, right?

Would rising IP and free flow be "worst case scenario"? I'd like to know.
Dave C

HP seat failure would be a bad case scenario; freeflow would be an understatement if the 2nds got a blast of 3000PSI air. Maybe "worst" case would be total loss of flow, but I don't see how that could happen other than a main spring failure, which I've never heard of.
 

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