First cave dives

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Storker

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we have lost access to a number of dive sites because of the actions of a few who thought the rules didn't apply to them
Although I sympathize, I have to admit that I have more sympathy for the victims' families and those who put themself at risk to pull the dead bodies out of the cave.
 

tursiops

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Seen a few reviews of the dive and dive center, all positive.
I hardly need point out that all the reviews were posted by living people. :eyebrow:
Dunning-Kruger.
I guess if it's only a (real) cave for a little while, that's OK? 'Cuz you only die a little bit? :cool:
 

Storker

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Take any activity with a 1% chance of a catastrophic outcome, do it 50 times, and your odds are up to a coin flip.
Strictly speaking, it's somewhat better (about 6 to 10).

Not that it ought to matter very much, though. Whether you give me even odds for dying or 2 to 5 for dying, I'll pass. I guess I'm a wimp.
 

cerich

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I think many of you need to recognise that people who are not cave trained dive sea caves all around the world safely and without incident probably every day. Yes there are accidents and people die from time to time just as occours in all aspects of diving.

Sea caves can be dived safely by confident open water divers. As someone who has been diving sea caves in my area for 20 plus years who is not a trained cave diver, I suggest that peopel looking to do these dives do their resreach to determin likley conditions to be encountered. Speak with the dive operator about the level of experince and training THEY require, ask local divers who dive the area via local forums and Facebook groups how they dive these caves and the sort of training they have to do the dives, if they are saying cave cert it is probably because there is a reason such the cave is complex, silty, restricted etc and follow that advice. Take a redundant air source and second torch. If you have concerns or are not comfortable don't do the dive, not everyone is comfortable in a over head environment. If the option is available do an intial dive through some of the wider passages to get an overall feel for conditions. Be very aware of sea conditions on the day if the surge against the shore is rising and falling by more than 0.5m then take extreme caution, any more than that don't do the dive.

Here is a video (not mine) diving one of my local sea caves giving an good indication of likely conditions. This cave is the most complex sea cave in Australia and is dived nearly every weekend by open water divers, I have dived every part of this system, some of it is tight and not for everyone but the main chambers are suitable for most open water divers.


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OK.. I am closing this thread but wish to address this post and some others along the same mindset.

Over and over we see experienced divers and instructors who feel that their experience will allow them to forgo training for the overhead environment (caves and penetration wreck). Over and over we see that it often does NOT work out. Only recently one of my best friends flew to the DR and recovered two divers from Italy that fully fit that description, and frankly the mindset of this post.

We can't, nor should we try and control what people think BUT we do have to draw a line when the attitudes or techniques being presented are not safe by community and industry consensus as well as all too often actual outcomes. This is one of those times.

Overhead training is all about when something goes wrong and prevention of said something going wrong. It is possible for an experienced diver to get away with doing overhead dives without training? Sure, until something goes wrong, at which point it goes horribly wrong and they are finding themselves lacking the tools in the toolbox to mitigate the situation.

For those not aware, in addition to Deep 6, I am an advisor for SB, Current Cave Instructor, Current Penetration Wreck Instructor Trainer, current member of the RSTC US Council, former Board member NAUI and training committee, former TDI Training Advsiory Panel member, and hold or have held instructor , and also with NAUI, SDI, TDI, and SNSI Instructor Trainer, Course Director ratings with NAUI, SDI, TDI, ERDI, ACUC, CMAS, PADI and am currently the Director of Operations US/Canada for SNSI. That is only to frame why I am taking the action of closing the thread and my position on community and industry consensus regards the overhead environment and untrained divers.
 
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