Anthias
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Yes, I looked at that photo and don't remember anything that looked at all like that and those bright colors would make anyone remember! So was wondering how old th
Fire on safari boat Suzana in Egypt (Red Sea Aggressor)
- Thread starter Miyaru
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Ken Kurtis
Contributor
Mike Walker
Contributor
These also match my recollection from 2018. They flanked the doorway that was the primary exit from the salon and thus the primary exit from the cabins. I believe the plugs were under the first shelf.
This is a great example of something well intentioned and well executed yet, potentially, horribly dangerous. It was tidy, well organized, sturdily built and camera friendly - but, knowing what we know now, potentially a contributing factor to the incident. I suspect in Egypt this would be evaluated more on the basis of 'is there a law against this or would a reasonable person see a problem with this' rather than the American 'should've known, SO PAY ME!' legal strategy.
(Repeating again - there has been nothing put forward as of yet indicating this was in fact caused by a battery fire. But this train of discussion is probably relevant nonetheless).
I did just flip through a few 18650 explosion Youtube videos. It does appear that even an unfinished hardwood box would probably contain the destruction of a single 18650. Wooden kitchen cutting boards were being used for experiment apparatus. Aluminum or steel cubbys/shelves would appear to be plenty so long as there was nothing else in the vicinity to catch (including paint). We're not dealing with hand grenades or thermite here... more like firecrackers... A viable solution (or at least a significant risk reduction) might be a whole lost simpler/cheaper than some would make it out to be.
Also, there seems to be a lot of emphasis being placed on charging in the dive related discussions, however, watching some of the videos it would appear a simple short on an unprotected cell is more than enough to set it off. Simply unplugging chargers at night is probably not a comprehensive solution.
This is a great example of something well intentioned and well executed yet, potentially, horribly dangerous. It was tidy, well organized, sturdily built and camera friendly - but, knowing what we know now, potentially a contributing factor to the incident. I suspect in Egypt this would be evaluated more on the basis of 'is there a law against this or would a reasonable person see a problem with this' rather than the American 'should've known, SO PAY ME!' legal strategy.
(Repeating again - there has been nothing put forward as of yet indicating this was in fact caused by a battery fire. But this train of discussion is probably relevant nonetheless).
I did just flip through a few 18650 explosion Youtube videos. It does appear that even an unfinished hardwood box would probably contain the destruction of a single 18650. Wooden kitchen cutting boards were being used for experiment apparatus. Aluminum or steel cubbys/shelves would appear to be plenty so long as there was nothing else in the vicinity to catch (including paint). We're not dealing with hand grenades or thermite here... more like firecrackers... A viable solution (or at least a significant risk reduction) might be a whole lost simpler/cheaper than some would make it out to be.
Also, there seems to be a lot of emphasis being placed on charging in the dive related discussions, however, watching some of the videos it would appear a simple short on an unprotected cell is more than enough to set it off. Simply unplugging chargers at night is probably not a comprehensive solution.
Anthias
Registered
Okay, so I think it has been completely remodeled since then Ken, because I don't remember this at all. But you are right. There is always a ton of stuff around that could catch fire.
I've been asking other boats I work with about night watches, and with subsequent conversations thought through the reports from survivors and looked at the layout of the boat again, because we are all asking how it could have started and why it traveled so fast. You can see the boat layout here if you scroll down the page:
Adventure Vacations | Aggressor® Liveaboards, Safaris & River Cruises
So this is what I wrote to another boat owner, "I think the Red Sea boat fire almost certainly started somewhere on the middle deck. Only smoke was reported from the lower deck, so it is very unlikely it started there and I haven't heard anything about fire on the top deck though that could just be missing info. Anyway, the middle deck has the dive deck with charging tables, salon, dining area, galley, one passenger cabin, and some crew quarters. Since the stairs from the lower deck were blocked off by flames (the stairs exit in the salon), that means to me it could have started in the salon, dining room, and maybe the galley, but that last seems unlikely. The emergency exit that everyone used came up into those crew quarters, which are right behind the narrow galley. I think a fire that started in the galley would have cut off that exit faster than the staircase at the other end of the boat. When people got out, the salon and dining area were fully on fire, but no fire was on the dive deck. Then a crew member with fire fighting equipment opened the door to the salon to try to fight the fire and the fire exploded out, igniting hanging wetsuits and such. It was a goner after that, as tanks started to explode and all."
Where it started can lead to clues of what started it. Salon or dining room would probably be electrical and some people certainly did some charging in there. Galley, if it could have started there, could be a lot of things. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, but I'm trying to think about all this.
I've been asking other boats I work with about night watches, and with subsequent conversations thought through the reports from survivors and looked at the layout of the boat again, because we are all asking how it could have started and why it traveled so fast. You can see the boat layout here if you scroll down the page:
Adventure Vacations | Aggressor® Liveaboards, Safaris & River Cruises
So this is what I wrote to another boat owner, "I think the Red Sea boat fire almost certainly started somewhere on the middle deck. Only smoke was reported from the lower deck, so it is very unlikely it started there and I haven't heard anything about fire on the top deck though that could just be missing info. Anyway, the middle deck has the dive deck with charging tables, salon, dining area, galley, one passenger cabin, and some crew quarters. Since the stairs from the lower deck were blocked off by flames (the stairs exit in the salon), that means to me it could have started in the salon, dining room, and maybe the galley, but that last seems unlikely. The emergency exit that everyone used came up into those crew quarters, which are right behind the narrow galley. I think a fire that started in the galley would have cut off that exit faster than the staircase at the other end of the boat. When people got out, the salon and dining area were fully on fire, but no fire was on the dive deck. Then a crew member with fire fighting equipment opened the door to the salon to try to fight the fire and the fire exploded out, igniting hanging wetsuits and such. It was a goner after that, as tanks started to explode and all."
Where it started can lead to clues of what started it. Salon or dining room would probably be electrical and some people certainly did some charging in there. Galley, if it could have started there, could be a lot of things. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, but I'm trying to think about all this.
Thanks.This was from 2015. matches the shot you referenced. Appears to be wood but more importantly (perhaps) are all the flammable towels, shelf covers, jackets, etc. that are there. You'll note on the second shelf on the right that I have my two Solas plugged in and charging, on the left you can see the green light of a battery charging, and there's also a power strip visible near the center. This was out on the dive deck area, just after you exited the salon.
No recollection of colors, but matches my recollection in every way otherwise (2016), including the slightly raised (wooden slat) lips (presumably so things do not slide down too easily) and including towels and t-shirts that I removed from on top of my chargers / camera multiple times...
Got home. Had to look.
This looks like an accidental - see if the camera works before diving picture (my intentional ones are not much better), but it's the same camera table indeed (2016) and "space above".
This looks like an accidental - see if the camera works before diving picture (my intentional ones are not much better), but it's the same camera table indeed (2016) and "space above".
Anthias
Registered
Okay, I'm going to ask people from my group about those tables, just to clear this question up. Because I do not remember anything looking like this! They had said they had done some remodeling recently, so 2019 could be way different from 2016. I definitely don't remember that window.
Ken Kurtis
Contributor
scubaozy
Contributor
It is not hard to install a master switch to camera table/charging station. I did not have to charge overnight even with my 8 nmh batteries and tons of other equipment.
You can have divers to sign the terms which includes a diving ban without a refund if not following the safety procedures. This is no different from alcohol ban in between dives or depth limits. It also ensures everyone is responsible of their own actions. I personally choose a LoB advertises this as a safety rule over the others.
A friend of mine is on an lob in Red Sea as we speak. We've had some contact by WhatsApp.
To my knowledge my friend is not aware of the fire. I haven't brought it up even though I very much would like to do that. When the trip is over, I will then. I don't like to stress people when they are going to dive.
A rock and a hard place.
Such psychology may be a bit of a problem for the lob companies as well. While on the one hand they want to reassure their guests, on the other hand that very reassurance may remind guests that perhaps they would rather vacation ashore.
To my knowledge my friend is not aware of the fire. I haven't brought it up even though I very much would like to do that. When the trip is over, I will then. I don't like to stress people when they are going to dive.
A rock and a hard place.
Such psychology may be a bit of a problem for the lob companies as well. While on the one hand they want to reassure their guests, on the other hand that very reassurance may remind guests that perhaps they would rather vacation ashore.
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